Cho at 82: Natural Farming Is Love, Not a Technique
Cho Han-kyu, Founder, Janong Natural Farming Institute (Cho Global Natural Farming) · South Korea
Spoken in Korean. Translated to English and checked line by line.
Master Cho, 82, speaks without slides near the end of the first day. Despite the uploader's title, this is not a history lecture. His point is that natural farming is a movement of love, not a technique, and he makes it with stories: turning Kona lava into 3 cm of soil in six months with corn and microbes, Hawaiʻi's vanished egg farms, a 1,200-hectare project in China, and a spring made with bananas in Africa. He also corrects the students on Microbes (IMO4): mix in soil from the field the IMO4 will go to.
What they found
Main claim: natural farming is not a technique but love, a movement still in progress, which uses what is already on the land and lets microbes build soil, and which can spread from a few hubs to the whole world.
Spoken address in Korean, about 22 minutes, no slides (the screen is blank throughout). Konkuk University, Seoul, October 5, 2016, late in the day after the students' trial reports. Live English interpretation went to headsets and is not on the recording. No trial design, plot sizes or statistics: the evidence is his own field stories from Hawaiʻi, China, Afghanistan, an unnamed African country and Taiwan.
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He has farmed since age 14 and is now 82
Said as part of thanking Prof. Kim Doo-hwan and Konkuk for holding the symposium; 82 is probably his age counted the Korean way (his books put him at 14 when the Korean War began in 1950).
▶ 2:52 As spoken
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Natural farming is 'not a technique, it is love'
A mother does not raise a baby by technique; she knows by feeling when to change a diaper. Farming should work from the same love.
▶ 3:42 As spoken
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Hawaiʻi once had more than ten large egg farms; now none
Cheap eggs and feed are shipped from the U.S. mainland, so local egg farms ran at a loss and closed. Farm size heard as 'over ten thousand birds' but unclear.
▶ 5:42 As spoken
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On Kona lava, corn and microbes made 3 cm of soil in six months
Loren Cunningham, president of the University of the Nations in Kona, gave him a patch of rock (about 20 pyeong, about 66 m², as heard). Corn from University of Hawaiʻi seed grew on its seed reserve, stalled, then grew 1.2 m in a week after a natural farming input. The stalks were cut and laid down and corn planted again on top.
▶ 7:06 As spoken
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Six months did the work of 600 years
His arithmetic: 1 cm of topsoil takes about 200 years to form, so 3 cm is about 600 years of weathering, done in six months by microbes.
▶ 8:51 As spoken
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Ask how to use what is on hand, not what to buy
'What to give' is the past tense; 'how to use what is already there' is the future tense. Example: he told Native Hawaiian lessees to sow rapeseed for flowers, tourists and oil.
▶ 9:47 As spoken
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Natural farming 'is not a finished edition; it is still in progress'
Each region should develop what fits it and hand it down. He says the students showed him things he had not thought of.
▶ 10:28 As spoken
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A 1,200-hectare natural farming project in China, about 10 billion won invested
Earlier he gives the area as 4 million pyeong (about 1,320 ha). He plans a demonstration farm and a natural farming village there.
▶ 10:55 As spoken
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Target: a household income of $3,000 (3 million won) a month
However enjoyable farming is, people won't farm without income; no place has taken up his village plan yet, so he will build it in China.
▶ 12:19 As spoken
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Seawater and eggshell lift the flavor of bland, chemically grown greens
Prompted by greens at the previous night's dinner that smelled raw and had no fragrance.
▶ 13:57 As spoken
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IMO4 must be made with soil from the field it will be used on
IMO3 (the culture multiplied on rice bran) plus an equal amount of soil makes IMO4. Microbes are the most jealous of living things and kill rivals; cultured with that field's soil, the incoming microbes meet 'cousins and uncles' and settle in. He says the presenters did not say which soil they used.
▶ 14:47 As spoken
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Microbes are about 80% water, so living soil can carry crops without rain
Crops grow where soil moisture is over 70%; he tells the Afghan students that indigenous microbes are their only way on cold, dry sand and gravel.
▶ 18:22 As spoken
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Bananas planted along a desert valley in Africa gave a spring
He says the bananas draw moisture from the air and drip it, the water collected into a spring, and a village now drinks from it, after Korean aid groups (including KOICA) said nothing would work. Country name unclear.
▶ 18:56 As spoken
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Plan: gatherings in Hawaiʻi, then Taiwan, China and Japan; hubs for whole regions
Taiwan for Southeast Asia, China for Asia, Hawaiʻi for the Pacific Rim. In Taiwan a village built around a church is becoming a natural farming base and eco-tourism site where 'the frogs are the masters'.
▶ 21:03 As spoken
- A spoken address with no slides and no data; every result is his own account, not a trial.
- The Kona soil figure (3 cm in six months) comes with no measuring method; the 600-year comparison assumes his 200-years-per-cm rule.
- The Africa spring story gives no country (name unclear), dates or measurements, and the 'bananas draw water from the air' explanation is his own.
- Numbers heard once, by one transcript, are uncertain: 20 pyeong of rock, 50 cm of growth on the seed reserve, the size and count of Hawaiʻi egg farms, 2,000–3,000 won rent.
- The old, fast, dialect-heavy Korean defeated both machine transcripts in places; about a fifth of the lines carry [unclear] gaps.
- The uploader's title promises a world history of natural farming. He does not cover the Japanese roots or name earlier teachers here, and none of that has been added.
- Make Microbes (IMO4) with soil from the field you will spread it on, so the cultured microbes settle in as relatives rather than fight as rivals.
- Living soil holds water: by his count microbes are about 80% water, so building soil life may help crops through dry spells.
- On rock or bare ground, grow a fast crop like corn, cut it, lay it down and plant again; repeated, this assists soil formation.
- To assist flavor and fragrance, his first tools are Minerals (seawater) and eggshell calcium, the base of Reproduction (WCA).
- Start from what is already on the farm before buying anything.
- A farm has to pay: he sets a family income near $3,000 a month as the goal.
Next to Master Cho's teaching
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Agrees
Farming since 14 His book says he was born on a farm and joined the 4H club in Suwon when the Korean War broke out, at 14.
Cho, Janong Natural Farming (2010 draft), p. 7
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Agrees
No young people left in the countryside In 2017 he says the same of Korea, Japan, China, Taiwan and Hawaiʻi: no young people in rural areas, so no future for the country.
2017/Advanced Cho/advanced fruit/IMG_3213 @ 0:20:15 (translated)
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Agrees
Universities teach chemical farming In 2018 he says universities and extension centers teach that scientific farming means chemicals, which serves the pesticide companies.
2018/Cho - advanced hawaii/master cho 2018 1-1 @ 0:52:43 (translated)
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Agrees
Love, and the mother who knows when to change the diaper He uses the same image in 2018: the baby cries, the mother knows without being told and changes the diaper; farm with the heart's eyes.
2018/Cho - advanced hawaii/cho advanced 2018 3-1 @ 1:13:02 (translated)
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Agrees
Hawaiʻi's egg farms closed In 2018 he says Hawaiʻi had quite a few egg farms, but rising feed prices and cheap mainland eggs shut them all down. This talk adds the count 'more than ten'.
2018/Cho - advanced hawaii/master cho 2018 1-1 @ 0:16:20 (translated)
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Agrees
Corn on Kona lava, University of Hawaiʻi seed, 1 m+ in a week The 2018 retelling has the same steps: just provide water, seed from the University of Hawaiʻi, growth on the seed's 'milk' then a stall (there about 30 cm), then about 1 m in a week after the type 2 input. A 2017 Hilo session names Loren Cunningham of the University of the Nations as the one who gave him the rock land.
2018/Cho - advanced hawaii/cho advanced 2018 2-1 @ 0:15:49 (translated)
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Agrees
3 cm of soil = 600 years In 2017 he gives the same arithmetic: 1 cm takes about 200 years, so 3 cm laid down with corn is 600 years' work. There he says one year; here six months.
2017/Advanced Cho/poultry/day 7/IMG_0463 @ 0:00:00 (translated)
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Agrees
Use what is on hand, not what to buy In 2017 he says the question is not what to feed pigs or chickens but how to use the resources around you.
2017/Advanced Cho/poultry/day 2/IMG_9920 @ 0:05:24 (translated)
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Agrees
China project: 4 million pyeong, 10 billion won In 2017 he describes the same project: 4 million pyeong (about 1,100 ha by his conversion), a Korean company's 10 billion won and Chinese government money.
2017/Advanced Cho/poultry/day 4/IMG_5020 @ 0:00:00 (translated)
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Agrees
IMO4 with the field's own soil: relatives, not rivals In 2018 he explains IMO4 the same way: field microbes find their 'uncles and sisters' have arrived and become friends. The 'most jealous of living things' image is new here.
2018/Cho - advanced hawaii/cho advanced 2018 2-3 @ 1:00:58 (translated)
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Agrees
Microbes are 80% water, so farming without rain In 2018 he says rice grows wherever soil moisture is over 70%, because microbes are about 80% water, and that he grew rice this way in the Tanzanian desert.
2018/Cho - advanced hawaii/master cho 2018 1-1 @ 0:22:19 (translated)
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Agrees
Seawater and eggshell for flavor His recipe book says WCA (eggshell calcium) improves taste and fragrance when used with seawater and other inputs.
Cho, Natural Farming Agricultural Materials (Recipe), p. 62
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Goes further
A spring made with bananas in Africa No other telling found in the corpus. His books record lectures and work in Tanzania and Congo, and he tells other Tanzania desert stories.
Cho, Janong Natural Farming (2003), p. 209–212
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Agrees
Nature is God's creation; restore the Earth In 2017 he says we live on the Earth God created and destroying it with synthetic chemicals is a grave sin.
2017/Advanced Cho/poultry/day 4/IMG_4980 @ 0:08:05 (translated)
“Natural farming is not a technique. It is love.”
▶ 3:42
“In six months, 600 years of weathering and assimilation, done by microbes. That is natural farming.”
▶ 8:51
“Natural farming is not a finished edition; it is still in progress.”
▶ 10:28
“Natural farming is a movement. A movement of love.”
▶ 21:25
In this talk
- 0:00Empty villages, no young farmers
- 2:10Universities teach chemicals
- 2:26Thanks to Konkuk; farming since 14
- 3:05Just back from China
- 3:34Love, not technique
- 4:41Hawaiʻi: costs, egg farms, tourists
- 6:35Turning Kona lava into soil
- 9:01Rapeseed for Native Hawaiian land
- 9:47Use what you already have
- 10:20Still in progress
- 10:44China: 1,200 hectares at 82
- 11:35Next gatherings, global village
- 13:29Seawater and eggshell for flavor
- 14:23IMO4: use your own field's soil
- 17:14The foreign students' results
- 17:48Afghanistan: microbes hold water
- 18:46Africa: bananas and a spring
- 20:00Taiwan, China, Hawaiʻi as hubs
- 21:25A movement of love
Transcript
English translation, checked against the Korean as spoken. Click any time to play from there.
0:00 [unclear opening; neither machine transcript makes sense here] [unclear; he seems to address the audience about young people and farms] [unclear] These days the young people in the countryside have abandoned their hometowns. I think we have to give them back their hometowns. Why? Because [they have all gone to the cities; words unclear],
[…] […] […] 요즘에 [시골의] 젊은 아이들이 고향을 저버렸습니다. 고향을 찾아줘야 된다고 생각하거든요. 왜 그러냐 하면 […] 다 [도시로] 왔으니까
0:48 [the countryside has emptied out]. [Those still farming] are getting on in years — people over 65. Even people of 80 are still farming. But young people today don't farm. Why? Because farming is no fun. Even if they farm, they don't know what to take an interest in; there's no interest in farming, and there's no money in it, so they leave farming. In the old days you heard children laughing in the mountain valleys, but these days the children's laughter in the valleys is gone, and only the old people are left [exact words unclear]. Then does our country have a future for its food?
농촌이 [비어] 있거든요. […] 그런데 조금 연세가 되긴 했는데 65살 넘으신 분들입니다. 80살을 잡수시는 분들도 농사를 짓습니다. 그런데 지금 젊은 사람들은 농사를 안 짓습니다. 왜? 농사 재미가 없기 때문입니다. 농사를 지어도 무엇에 흥미를 가져야 되는지, 농사 짓는데 흥미가 없고 돈도 안 되고 그래서 농사를 떠납니다. 그래서 옛날에는 산골짜기 계곡에 아기들의 웃음소리가 있었는데 요즘은 산골짜기 계곡에 아기들의 웃음소리가 없어졌고 노인들[…]만 남아있습니다. 그러면 우리나라에 먹을 것의 미래가 있습니까?
1:37 Or not? And when you try to think of farming with the future in mind, there are people who ruin it. [Here we are at a university; this is an agricultural university — wording unclear,] and the university is the one that should play the biggest role. I'm sorry to say it here, but university professors and the like are ruining it badly. Why? What they learned was pesticides and chemical fertilizer. What they teach, they call pesticides, chemical fertilizer and technology.
없습니까? 근데 이걸 갖다가 좀 미래를 생각하는 농사를 생각한다 그러면 망치는 사람들이 있습니다. 여기서 […] 대학교거든요 […] […] 그 대학이 제일 큰 역할을 담당하는 대학이거든요. 여기 와서 얘기하면 정말로 저는 [미안한] 얘기지만 대학교 교수도 그렇지만 너무 망칩니다. 왜 그러냐, 그분들은 배우기를 농약과 화학비료를 배웠지. 가르치는 게 농약과 화학비료와 기술이라고 말하고 있지.
2:22 Few of them think about [natural farming]. But here at Konkuk University, Professor Kim Doo-hwan has taken up natural farming and provided this place and is holding this event; when I see that, my heart… [unclear; Whisper hears 'I want to die', almost certainly mis-heard.] I have been very lonely. I started farming at 14. Now I am 82. Even now, because I want to build something, I'm running around here and there. I came back from China the day before yesterday.
[…] 그런 거를 생각하는 사람은 별로 없습니다. 근데 건국대학교 김두환 교수님이 자연농업을 [살려가지고] 이런 장소를 제공하고 또 행사하고 있는 거 보면은 제 마음은 […] 저는 굉장히 외로웠습니다. 제가 14살부터 농사 시작했습니다. 지금이 82살입니다. 지금도 제가 무언가를 만들고 싶어서 여기저기 뛰어다니고 있습니다. 제가 어제 그저께 중국에서 왔습니다.
3:09 They are now reforming agriculture in a big way in China. The area is 4 million pyeong. 4 million pyeong — [unclear; a figure, heard as '14 million pyeong'] There they want to make a comprehensive [unclear] demonstration farm. As I said earlier, natural farming there is a movement. Natural farming is a movement that opens up the future and secures the future. Natural farming is not a technique. It is love. When a mother at home raises her baby, does she raise it with technique? No. She raises it with love, doesn't she?
중국의 농업을 큰 걸 지금 개혁하고 있습니다. 면적이 400만 평입니다. 400만 평은, […] 거기에 이제 그 종합적인 […] 그 시범농장을 거기다 만들자고 합니다. 거기는 자연농업은 아까 우리 말씀을 드렸지만 운동입니다. 미래를 개척하고 미래를 보장받는 운동이 자연농업입니다. 자연농업은 기술이 아닙니다. 사랑입니다. 집에 엄마가 애기를 기를 때 기술로 기릅니까? 아니죠. 사랑으로 기르지 않습니까?
3:55 That love, the love with which she raises her own children, is the farming and the method of natural farming. Let me ask you something. Don't your babies cry? When babies cry, there is always a reason. The mother doesn't know the reason because the child tells her; she knows it by feeling. By instinct, by feeling. So when the baby cries, the mother knows right away and says, 'Let me change your diaper.' She doesn't know to change the diaper because it's written down somewhere; by instinct, by love, she comes to know it. People who practice natural farming, building on that kind of love,
그 사랑이 바로 아기들을, 자기 자식들을 기르는 그 사랑이 자연농업의 농사와 농법입니다. 하나 여쭤볼게요. 여러분들 애기들이 말이지 울지 않아요? 근데 울 때, 애기들이 울 때 반드시 뭔가 목적이 있거든요. 그 목적을 엄마는 아이들이 가르쳐 줘서가 아니라 느낌으로 알거든요. 감, 느낌으로 알아요. 그래서 애기들이 울고 나서 엄마가 금방 알고 기저귀 갈아줄게 그러거든요. 근데 그 기저귀 갈아줘야 되겠다고, 이게 기술로 나와 있는 게 아니라 감으로, 사랑으로 그걸 알게 되는 거예요. 자연농업 하는 사람들이 그런 사랑을 바탕으로 해서
4:39 that's how natural farming works. Now I'm going to Hawaii in the United States to set things up [wording unclear], the people there in Hawaii heard what I said and [reacted; word unclear]. Why? Because Native Hawaiians are not treated very well. The educated people take all the positions. So how are Native Hawaiians to make a living? They have to develop that land somehow and farm it [so that it pays; wording unclear]. But farming in Hawaii, machinery is expensive, pesticides and fertilizer are all expensive.
자연농업이 되거든요. 제가 이제 미국 하와이에 가서 세팅을 할 텐데 그 하와이에 있는 […]들이 제 얘기 듣고 […]하고요. 그게 왜 그러냐고, 하와이 원주민들을 원주민들을 대우를 별로 안 해줘요. 배운 사람들이 전부 다 자리잡는 거거든요. 근데 하와이의 원주민들이 사는 방법이 뭐냐? 그 땅을 갖다가 어떻게 개발을 해가지고서 […] 농사를 지어야 되거든요. 그런데 하와이의 농사짓는 데 기계값이 높고 농약값, 비료값이 전부 다 비싸요.
5:25 So the land is left idle, isn't it? They can't farm it. [unclear; something is cheap — probably imported produce] And what happens then? In Hawaii, the farmers end up leaving the land. When I went there and looked, what struck me [word unclear] when I thought about it, was this: in Hawaii [large egg farms — heard as 'raising over ten thousand birds'; size unclear] egg farms, there were more than ten of them, they say. Now there is not one. Because from the U.S. mainland they ship the eggs in. And the feed has to be shipped from the mainland too.
땅을 묵혀 놓지 않습니까? 농사를 못 짓고. […] 값이 싸니까 그렇게 된 게 어떻게 되죠? 하와이에 농민들이 결과적으로 농촌을 떠나게 되는 거예요. 제가 거기 가서 보고서 참 […]한 게 생각해보니 뭐냐 하면 하와이에 [만 마리 이상 키우는] 양계장이 10개 이상 있었대요. 지금 하나도 없습니다. 왜냐면 미국 본토에서 계란을 실어 오는 거예요. 미국 본토에서 사료를 실어 와 먹이래요.
6:00 But if you ship in feed and produce eggs with it, you run at a loss, because cheap eggs come in. And the people of Hawaii live off the tourists at Waikiki. Tourists won't come to Waikiki. Would they come there to eat pesticides? What I mean is, if they make food from farms that use pesticides, what is it? They'd be coming to eat pesticides. Tourists should not come to Hawaii to eat pesticides, [unclear] So what way is there to solve these problems? Hawaii is land made by volcanic eruptions. When you look at the ground, it's all rock.
근데 그냥 사료를 실어 와가지고 [계란] 내는 거는 적자지. 계란이 싼 게 오니까. 근데 하와이 사람들이 이제 와이키키 관광객을 먹고 사는데 와이키키에 관광객 안 올 거예요. 아, 농약을 먹으러 거기 와? 그게 뭐냐면 농약을 주는 농장을 가지고 음식을 만드니까 뭐예요? 농약을 먹으러 오는 거지. 농약 먹으러 하와이에 관광객이 […] 오면 안 되고 […] 이러한 문제들을 해결할 방법이 뭐가 있냐. 하와이가 화산 폭발을 통해 만들어진 땅이거든요. 땅이 보면 다 바위고요.
6:48 Since the land is all rock like that, [it is hard to farm; wording unclear]. Looking at that, I said that with natural farming, in three years — just three years — all this rock in Hawaii could be turned into soil. That's what I said. Then the president of the University of the Nations in Kona, Loren Cunningham, said he would give me some rock and told me to make it into soil. So right away he gave me [a patch of rock] of about 20 pyeong. 'Try turning this into soil,' he said. But for 1 cm of topsoil to form takes 200 years.
[…] 땅이 그렇게 바위가 되어 있으니까 그걸 보면서 하와이의 땅은 자연농업으로 보면 3년이면, 3년만 지나가면 이 바위를 다 흙으로 만들 수 있겠다. 그렇게 얘기를 했거든요. 그랬더니 코나에 있는 열방대학의 로렌 커닝햄 총장이 바위를 줄 테니까 그걸 만들어 보라고 그런 얘기를 하더라고요. 그래서 바로 [바위를] 20평 정도를 내주더라고. 이걸 한번 흙으로 만들어보라고. 그런데 표토가 1cm가 흙으로 만들어지는 데 200년 걸리는 거예요.
7:37 It takes 200 years, and he wanted me to [do it; words unclear]. [unclear] So I said I would do it. In return [I asked him to] get corn seed from the University of Hawaii and just keep it well watered. So we planted corn [on the rock]. When you plant corn, the seed has its own milk [endosperm], doesn't it? On that alone it sprouted and grew to about 50 cm [as heard]. After that it stops growing because there are no nutrients. Then when we gave it [a natural farming input; term unclear], in one week it grew 1 m 20. Then we cut what had grown and laid it down,
200년 걸리는데 […] 만들어버리라는 거예요. […] 그래서 하겠다고. 대신 하와이대학교에서 옥수수 씨앗 구해 오고 물만 잘 줘라. 그래가지고 […] 옥수수 심었거든요. 옥수수를 심으면 옥수수의 씨젖이 있지 않습니까? 그걸로도 발아가 돼가지고 한 50센티 정도 자라더라고. 그 다음부터 영양분이 없으니 안 자라잖아요. 그런데 […] 주니까 일주일 만에 1미터 20이 자라더라고. 그래서 자란 것을 베어가면서 깔았어요.
8:18 and after laying it down we planted corn on top of it again. The corn stalks became compost, and the corn grew. So in six months we turned the rock into 3 cm of soil. [unclear; possibly that earthworms appeared] [unclear] [unclear] We made 3 cm [rest unclear]. If 1 cm takes 200 years, we made 3 cm, so that's 600 years. In six months, 600 years of weathering and assimilation, done by microbes. That is natural farming. So I told them: [when Native Hawaiians take on land; words unclear], they are very glad.
깔고 난 다음에 그 위에다 다시 옥수수를 심었어요. 그러니까 그 옥수수 대가 거름이 돼서 옥수수가 자라더라고. 그래서 6개월 만에 바위를 […] 흙을 갖다가 3cm를 만들었어요. […] […] […] 3cm 만들었으니까 […] [1cm에] 200년 걸리면 3cm를 만들었으니까 600년 걸리는 셈이죠. 6개월 만에 600년의 풍화작용과 동화작용을 미생물에 의해서 만드는 거예요. 그게 자연농업이에요. 그래서 제가 그런 얘기 했어요. 원주민들이 땅을 […] 맡으면 원주민들이 굉장히 좋아해요.
9:10 The rent on [the land; words unclear] is about 3,000 won in our money? Only about 2,000 won. But if they don't actually farm it, it is all taken back. It is reclaimed. So the Native Hawaiians are worried. So I told them: don't do that; sow rapeseed on that land, rapeseed. If you sow rapeseed, tourists will come to the field of flowers, and the rapeseed gives you oil [rest unclear]. When I said that, they were surprised and very pleased. For me it is not 'what should I give, what should I do, to make money',
[…] 임대료가 우리나라 돈으로 3천원 정도 되나? 2천원 정도밖에 안 돼요. 그런데 농사를 실질적으로 [안 지으면] 전부 다 [빼앗겨서] 가는 거예요. 회수하는 거예요. 그러니까 원주민이 걱정이에요. 그래서 제가 그런 얘기 했어요. 아 그러지 말고 저 땅에다가 유채를 뿌려라, 유채. 유채를 뿌리면 꽃동산에서 관광객이 올 것이고 유채 열매로 기름 짜고 […] 그런 얘기를 했더니 깜짝 놀라가지고 좋아하시더라고요. 저는 무엇을 줘야, 무엇을 어떻게 해야 돈을 버느냐가 아니라
9:56 but how to use what is already there, how to give what is already there; [not 'what do I feed the hen so she lays eggs'; wording partly unclear]. Doing it by giving something [bought] is the past tense; how to give what is already there is the future tense. Thinking positively in the future tense, so that it helps human life and makes nature more beautiful: that is natural farming. I listened to all of your presentations, and I was [amazed; word unclear]. You came up with things even I had not thought of. So natural farming is not a finished edition; it is still in progress.
있는 것을 어떻게 활용하고, 있는 것을 어떻게 주면 되느냐, [무엇을 줘야] 닭이 먹고 알을 낳느냐[가 아니라]. 무엇을 줘서 하는 것은 과거형이고, 있는 것을 어떻게 주느냐는 미래형이거든요. 미래형을 긍정적으로 생각해서 우리 인간 생활에 보탬이 되고 자연도 아름다워지고 하게 하는 게 자연농업이에요. 여러분들이 발표하신 것 다 들어봤는데 저는 […]예요. 저도 거기까지 생각 못한 것들을 보았어요. 그래서 자연농업은 결정판이 아니라 진행형이에요.
10:32 Because it is in progress, each region can develop what fits that region and hand it down to its descendants. That is natural farming. So now I am planning to start work in China, and it is no small area. It is 1,200 hectares. And investors are putting about 10 billion won, in Korean money, into it. And because I am 82, people there say [I don't have long to live, so what will happen to the project; wording unclear]. So I told them — the young people — 'Just live as long as I have. Then it will go well.' That's what I said.
진행형이기 때문에 더 그 지역에 맞는 것을 그 지역에서 개발해서 후손에게 물려줄 수 있는 그것이 자연농업이에요. 그래서 저는 지금 중국에서 일을 하려고 시작을 구상하고 있지만, 또 이런 게 적은 면적이 아니에요. 1,200헥타예요. 그리고 거기에 투자자들이 한국 돈으로 100억 정도가 투자가 돼요. 그러면서 […] 제가 82살이니까 거기 사람들이 […] 얼마 못 사니까 […] 이런 얘기를 해요. 그래서 내가 그 사람들한테 그랬어요. 젊은 사람들한테. 너희들이 나만큼만 살아라. 그러면 잘 된다. 이렇게 얘기를 했습니다.
11:21 Why? [Something about hope and love keeping you from growing old; wording unclear.] Do you agree? [Audience:] Yes. Because [Konkuk University] has started such fine work here [first words unclear], taking strength from this, next year in Hawaii, then in Taiwan, then in China, then in Japan, going around like that, we can hold natural farming gatherings, to sightsee and also to experience what each country is doing. So we have to build global-village natural farming villages.
왜 그러냐면 희망을 […] 사랑을 […] [늙지] 않아요. 인정하세요? 네. […] 훌륭한 일을 시작했기 때문에 이것의 힘을 받아가지고 내년도에는 하와이에서, 그 다음에는 대만에서, 그 다음에는 중국에서, 그 다음에는 일본에서, 이렇게 돌아다니면서 자연농업 대회를 해서 전부 다 관광도 할 겸, 각 나라에서 하고 있는 것 체험도 할 겸 그렇게 해서 할 수 있어요. 그래서 지구촌 자연농업 마을을 만들어야 돼요.
12:10 In my view, however enjoyable farming is, if it brings no income, people can't farm. So if each person, each household, were guaranteed an income of 3,000 dollars, 3 million won, a month, [who would refuse to farm? — wording unclear]. I wanted to try building such a village and have talked about it here and there, but nowhere has taken it up yet. So this time we will build that village in China. What matters is [a setting] where the whole family can work together and farm, where even the little ones, coming home, don't just come home empty-handed,
그래서 저는 지금 제 생각에 농사가 아무리 즐겁다고 하더라도 수입이 안 되면 농사 못 지어요. 그래서 한 사람당, 한 가구당 한 달에 3천 달러, 300만 원씩의 수익이 보장이 된다면 농사 [안 지을 사람 있나] 보세요. 그래서 그 마을 조성하는 걸 해보고 싶어서 여기저기 얘기해 주면 아직 받아들인 데가 없어요. 그래서 이번에 중국에다 그 마을을 만들 거예요. […] 온 가족이 다 같이 협력해서 농사할 수 있는 […] 조성, 조그만 애들도 나갔다 들어올 때 그냥 들어올 게 아니라
12:56 but pick grass for the chickens and bring it in; that is loving their family, and, as the elders said earlier, loving their country. That way we have to create an environment where people farm with interest and with hope. But people farming now [are disheartened; word unclear], and so they have little interest. But people who practice natural farming and eat natural farm produce can't eat ordinary produce [it turns their stomach; word unclear]. Yesterday Professor Kim Doo-hwan very generously prepared a dinner, didn't he? There were vegetables, fresh greens.
닭이 먹을 풀을 뜯어가지고 들어오면 그만큼 집안을 사랑하고 아까 어른들이 말씀했지만 나라를 사랑하는 거지. 그렇게 해서 우리가 흥미를 가지고 소망을 가지고 농사짓는 환경을 만들어야 되거든요. 그런데 지금 농사짓는 사람은 […]. 그렇게 해서 별로 흥미를 못 갖고 있거든요. 그런데 자연농업을 하여가면서 자연 농산물을 먹던 사람은 일반 농산물을 먹지 못해요. [구역질 나서.] 어제 김두환 교수님이 아주 큰 마음을 써가지고 저녁 식사를 준비했지 않습니까? 거기에 야채가 나왔거든요. 풋나물.
13:41 Those greens had a fishy, raw smell. They had no fragrance, because [chemicals were used; wording unclear]. So I spoke to [someone] there. [unclear] 'I'll raise the flavor of that for you.' Raising the flavor takes nothing special: seawater and eggshells. With just those, the flavor gets much better. People who eat should taste its [true] flavor and smell its fragrance, but instead they want to eat only with their eyes. With their eyes. So we have to change from eating with the eyes to eating with the heart, with love. That is what natural farming thinks.
그 풋나물이 냄새가 비린내가 나요. 향기가 없는 거예요. [화학물질]이 [들어갔기] 때문에. 그냥 거기서 […] 보고 얘기했어요. […] 저거 맛을 내가 올려줄 테니까 […] 그 맛을 올리는 건 다른 게 아니에요. 바닷물하고 계란 껍질이요. 그것만 가지고 만들어주면 맛이 훨씬 좋아지거든요. 그렇게 해서 먹는 사람들이 그 […] 맛, 향기 이걸 맡아야 되는데 그런 것이 아니고 눈으로만 먹으려고 하는 거예요. 눈으로. 그러니까 눈으로 먹는 데서 마음으로, 사랑으로 먹는 것으로 바뀌어야 됩니다. 그것이 자연농업의 생각이거든요.
14:23 Now, about today's presenters: they talked about making soil [rest unclear]. Making soil is not making [dirt]; it is making [the life of the indigenous microbes; wording unclear]. When they live, the dinner table lives; when the table lives, people live. When people live, the household [thrives; word unclear]. So I'm talking about the method, regarding indigenous microbes. Several of today's speakers talked about IMO number 4. What is number 4? Up to number 3, you multiply the original culture on rice bran — that is number 3.
그런데 오늘 발표하신 분들 […] 얘기하면 땅을 만드는 거, 땅을 만들어 […] 땅을 만드는 건 […]를 만드는 게 아니라 토착[미생물] […]을 만들고 있는 거예요. 그들이 살아야 밥상이 살고, 밥상이 살아야 그 인간이 살고 있는 거예요. 그 인간이 살아야 사람이 살고 그 집안이 […]. 그래서 그러한 […] 방법을 얘기하는 건데, 토착미생물에 맞는데, 오늘 말씀하신 분들 중에서 토착미생물 4번, 4번 얘기했지만, 그 4번이 뭐냐 그러면 3번까지는 원균을 확대해서 쌀겨[…]에 확대 배양해야 하는 게 3번이라고 하거든요.
15:08 Number 4 is number 3 with the same amount of soil mixed in. But when they mix in soil, they don't say what soil they mix in. That is wrong. When you mix in soil, you have to use soil from the field where you'll use it. You have to put in that field's soil, because the microbes in that field's soil are alive in it, aren't they? And of all living things, the one with the strongest jealousy is the microbe. When people get jealous they can hold it in, but microbes can't. They kill. That is the microbes' [world; word unclear]. So what happens when you mix in soil from the field you'll use?
4번은 3번에다가 같은 양의 흙을 집어넣는 거예요. 그런데 흙을 집어넣는데 어떤 흙을 집어넣는 건지 얘기를 안 하거든요. 그건 잘못된 거예요. 흙을 집어넣는 거는 사용하는 밭의 흙을 집어넣어야 되는 거예요. 밭의 흙을 집어넣어야 밭의 흙 중에 미생물이 살아있지 않습니까? 그런데 미생물은 생명체 중에 가장 질투심이 강한 게 미생물이에요. 사람은 질투가 나면 참는 게 있지만 미생물은 참지를 못해요. 죽여요. 그게 미생물의 […]거든요. 그런데 4번을 하다 사용할 밭의 흙을 갖다 섞으면 뭐해요?
15:59 While it is being multiplied, the microbes from the field get multiplied along with it, don't they? They multiply together, and then you put that into the field, right? Then, say, [the field's microbes come out to fight what you bring in; wording unclear]. When they come in, who's there? Because they were cultured together, their cousins and uncles are in there. Right? So they're about to fight, and then — 'Oh, Uncle! Where have you been?' What is that? Affinity comes faster. They make friends faster, don't they?
확대 배양하는 중에 밭에 있는 미생물이 같이 확대 배양이 되지 않습니까? 같이 확대 배양이 되는데 그걸 갖다가 밭에 넣잖아요? 예를 들면 그 […] 미생물이 싸우러 오면 […] […] 들어오면 누가 있어요? 그걸 갖다가 같이 배양에 있었으면 사촌, 삼촌이 거기 있지. 그렇지 않아요? 그럼 싸우려고 하다가 아니 삼촌 어디 갔다 오셨어요? 그런 게 뭐예요? 친화성이 빨라지죠. 친화가 빨라지지 않습니까?
16:32 So making it number 4 by bringing in soil from the very field and land it will go to — we put soil in to make number 4 in order to raise that affinity. It is not making number 4 just as a formality [rest unclear]. So please really take this to heart, and be sure to keep to using soil from the field where it will be used. Only then does the affinity between the soil and the microbes grow. Almost all of today's presenters [used number 4; whether he says affinity was or wasn't discussed is unclear]. This [affinity] is love. If we would do natural farming properly like that…
그래서 토착미생물 4번으로 만드는 그 밭에, 그 땅의 흙을 갖다 놓으면서 친화성을 높이기 위해서 흙을 넣은 4번으로 만든 것이지. 형식상 4번으로 만드는 […] 그런 건 아니에요. 그걸 꼭 좀 그렇게 납득을 하셔가지고 그 사용할 밭의 흙을 넣는 것을 꼭 지켜주세요. 그래야 토양과 미생물의 친화성이 높아지는 겁니다. 근데 오늘 발표하신 분들 중에서 거의 다 4번만 […] 친화성 얘기가 […] 이게 사랑이거든요. 그렇게 해서 우리가 자연농업을 제대로 좀 했으면
17:14 What I'm very grateful for in coming to this symposium is that foreigners came, did natural farming, and when they put out the statistics, it was amazing. How could they produce that? If Konkuk University builds up natural farming step by step like this, before long the economics of our country's agriculture will change. Konkuk University will truly be our country's best agricultural university. And another thing I'd like to ask: [the students] came from Afghanistan, didn't they?
제가 이번에 심포지엄에 와서 아주 감사하게 생각하는 건 뭐냐면 외국 사람들이 와서 자연농업을 해서 통계 내면 기가 막혀. 그걸 어떻게 만들어낼 수 있겠습니까. 그래서 그러한 식으로 건국대학이 자연농업을 하나하나 올려준다면 얼마 안 가서 우리나라 농업의 경제가 바뀔 거예요. 건국대학은 명실공히 우리나라 최고의 농업대학이요. 그리고 제가 또 부탁을 드리고 싶은 것은 그 […] 아프가니스탄에서 왔었죠?
18:00 Afghanistan is a country that is [unclear] right now. They came from that country to learn this and take it home, and what will they do? Afghanistan is sandy fields, gravel fields. That's the ground. [A very cold country with little rain; wording partly unclear.] There, the only way is indigenous microbes. Why? Indigenous microbes themselves are 80% water. [unclear] it's over 80%, isn't it? And any crop will grow in ground where moisture is over 70%. Since the microbes' moisture is 80%, if you just raise those microbes, you can farm even without rain.
아프가니스탄이 지금 […] 나라예요. 그 나라에서 와가지고 이걸 배워가지고 가서 어떻게 하려고 그러는데 아프가니스탄이 모래밭이거든요. 자갈밭이거든요. 땅이. 되게 춥고 비가 […] 나라예요. 근데 거기에서 하는 건 토착미생물밖에 방법이 없어요. 왜냐면 토착미생물 자체가 수분이 80%거든요. […] 80% 이상 되지 않습니까? 그럼 모든 농작물은 수분 70% 넘어가는 땅이면 농사가 되는 거예요. 그럼 미생물의 그 습도가 80%니까 그 미생물만 기르게 되면은 비가 안 와도 농사지을 수 있는 거예요.
18:46 I'm working in [an African country; name unclear, heard 'Semegare'] right now. It is completely sand desert. There's no water, so they can't farm. So there I made a spring and came back. To make the spring, we planted bananas all along a mountain valley. The bananas draw moisture from the air and grow well, don't they? And they pee, too, don't they? When that water comes down, it becomes spring water, doesn't it? So we made [a pool for] the spring water. Then the people there — from our country there are [Global Village organizations; name unclear], KOICA, they're all there.
지금 아프리카 […]에 가서 일하고 있거든요. [거기는] 완전히 모래사막이에요. 근데 물이 없어가지고 농사 지을 수가 없어요. 그래서 거기서 제가 샘물 하나를 만들어 놓고 왔거든요. 샘물을 만들려면 뭐냐면 바나나를 산 계곡에 쭉 심었어요. 그랬더니 그 바나나가 공기 중에서 습기를 뽑아가지고 아주 잘 살지 않습니까? 그래가지고 오줌도 싸놓잖아요. 그 물이 내려오면 샘물이 되지 않습니까? 그래가지고 샘물을 […] 만들어 놨습니다. 그랬더니 그 저런 사람들이 우리나라에 지구촌[…]도 있고 코이카도 있고 다 있어요.
19:30 Those people all said it wouldn't work, and when water came out, they asked, 'How did this happen?' So I said, 'The bananas [bring the water; wording unclear].' When I told them that, they asked how that could be possible. So in that village, the people who can drink [that water] [are living on it; wording unclear]. It works out like that, so don't think anything is impossible; hold on to the possibility that it can be done, and live positively, in the future tense. You must not live in the past tense. People have come here from Taiwan, and from Japan, too.
그 사람들은 다 안 된다고 그러다가 아 물이 나오니까 아 이게 어떻게 된 거냐고 그래서 바나나가 […] 옮깁니다. 아 그렇게 얘기했더니 그럴 수도 있냐고 그러더라고요. 그래서 그 마을에서 [물을] 마실 수 있는 사람들이 […] 먹고 살고 있습니다. 이제 그렇게 […] 되는 거니까 모든 일을 안 된다고 생각하지 말고 된다고 하는 가능성을 가지고 긍정적으로, 미래형으로 살아가야 됩니다. 과거형으로 살아가면 안 됩니다. 그래서 지금 여기 대만에서도 또 일본에서도 오셨거든요.
20:04 So now Taiwan is [coming alive; wording unclear]. In Taiwan, almost [unclear] if you go there once, there's a big church [heard 'jong-i' or 'jo-gi' church, possibly a Presbyterian church; rest unclear]. The village is called [name unclear]. They are building a natural farming base in that village, centered on the church. There, the frogs are the masters. Why? Because the frogs [unclear]. If you go there, the frogs are so loud you can hardly sleep [wording unclear], and it is developing well now as an eco-tourism area.
그러니까 이제 대만 지금 살아나고 있어요. 그 대만에 거의 이제 그 한번 가보시면 […]교회는 큰 교회인데 […] 그런데 그 마을이 […]이라고 해요. 그런데 그 마을을 […]교회 중심으로 해서 자연농업 기지를 만들고 있거든요. 거기는 개구리가 주인이에요. 왜 그 개구리가 […] 그래가지고 거기 가면 아주 개구리 소리 때문에 잠도 […] 거기 그 생태 관광지역을 지금 잘 발전하고 있어요.
20:52 So, centered on that place, I want to try to build up Taiwan. I have that ambition. [unclear question about Taiwan] If we build up Taiwan, all of Southeast Asia can make use of it. And if we build up China, the whole Asian region can be built up. If we build up Hawaii, the whole Pacific Rim can be built up. Only when the global village is stable that way can we live in peace. Natural farming is a movement. A movement of love. So, hearing the presentations you all gave this time, I think, 'Thank you so much, God.' That's how I feel.
그래서 거길 중심으로 해가지고 한번 그 대만을 만들어 보려고. 그래서 저는 욕심이 있어요. 대만이 […] 아세요. 대만을 만들면 동남아시아가 다 활용할 수 있거든요. 그리고 중국을 만들면 아시아 지역이 다 만들어질 수 있거든요. 하와이를 만들면 환태평양 지역이 다 만들어질 수 있거든요. 그렇게 해서 지구촌이 안정이 돼야 우리가 편안하게 살 수가 있어요. 자연농업은 운동이에요. 사랑의 운동. 그래서 저는 이번에 여러분들이 말씀하신 발표를 듣고서 아 정말 감사합니다 하나님. 제가 그렇게 생각하고 있어요.
21:38 Why? [Some may wonder why I speak of God in natural farming; wording unclear.] Nature was there, and so we were born. It is not that nature was made because we exist. Nature is not a human work. It is the work of God's creation. So living within that work of creation means we restore this one and only planet Earth and hand it down to our descendants as their inheritance. If, thinking we're so clever, we [pour on farm chemicals; words unclear] and [ruin] the Earth, can we still live on it? No. So we must think bigger and bigger, and our purpose is to take the lead in saving the Earth.
왜? 자연농업에 무슨 하나님이라고 얘기할지 모르겠지만, 자연이 있어서 우리가 태어난 거지, 우리가 있어가지고 자연이 만들어지는 게 아니거든요. 자연은 사람의 작품이 아니거든요. 하나님의 창조의 작품이지. 그래서 창조의 작품, 작품 속에서 내가 살아가는 건 하나밖에 없는 지구별을 우리가 회복시켜가지고 거기서 자손들에게 유산으로 물려줘야 되지. 내가 잘났다고 해서 […] 지구별을 […] 해놓고 우리가 살 수 있는 게 있어요? 없죠. 그래서 우리가 점점 크게 생각해가지고 지구별을 살리는 게 앞장서서 [할] 목적입니다.
22:23 I believe that at its center will be [unclear; possibly Konkuk University]. Thank you.
그 중심에 […]이 있을 거라고 생각합니다. 감사합니다.