Food Waste to Pig Feed, Taro by Hand, Soil from a Gulch

0:00 Bill Steiner: Aloha, welcome. This is the innovations, agricultural innovations symposium on approaches for success in Hawaii. We have a very good panel for you today to talk about some of the things we're going to talk about. I did want to say that innovations, oh I'm sorry, let me introduce myself. I'm Bill Steiner. I'm the chair for the symposium. Some of you might know me as the former dean for agriculture here at UH Hilo. Innovations is something that's not new to Hawaii. In fact, if you take a look at our native Hawaiian culture, you will see that there

0:50 were innovations all over the place. They recognized the role of genetics, for example. There were a number of strains that were developed of different crop types. The knowledge of stonework was built and irrigation systems, terraced loʻi, fishponds. So innovations was used there. The work materials, there was innovation in that. Plant products, animal material. There was innovations in engineering knowledge, in fact. The Kohala field system, some of you might have heard of or know about. Peter Vitousek and I worked on that system.

1:26 And that system was used to grow thousands of acres of sweet potatoes and upland taro. And it was basically in this area here on the Kohala side. And if you've been up there, you know that's pretty much a very dry, a very rocky area. And you kind of wonder, how did they ever manage to grow something there? The innovation there was to plant sugar cane above the taro. That was a dry land taro that was below it. And every time in the mornings the mist would come and the sugar cane would catch that mist and wave in the wind and shake the droplets of water down on the taro.

2:07 And so that was another innovation they used to get past that dry land system. Hawaii demonstrates something I think that all cultures have to go through. In a way, culture is a way to escape from nature. You use your own systems that you develop to innovate and to become better and better at what you do. So this graph shows the development of a social system, an economic system, and that has to be done within a natural environment. Hopefully, it comes together in this little sustainable area here, which many of you are working in today.

2:49 And then it comes down to how to supply energy to these systems. We're challenged today by this idea of peak oil. We now know that modern agriculture is based on cheap energy, and the economic conditions will not keep up with this cheap energy failure if it happens. And just this past week, crude was benchmarked at $45 a barrel because the Saudi basically broke OPEC rules and lowered the prices. And that is how come we had this tremendous price drop. But you know now that Russia has just moved into Syria and we now know that there may

3:38 be a huge blow up there if in fact we get into a shooting war with Russia. The impact of energy costs in incident economies is good and bad effects to some extent. The good effects is that it might lead to somewhat of a decrease in population numbers as jobs are lost so we can survive a little better sustainably. There will be a decline in ag commodity markets if energy prices stay up or come back high again, which they probably will because they've cycled twice now in the last 30 years. These things can lead to a weakening of the island economy, a strengthening of diversified

4:20 ag, a return to family run business models, and a strengthening of dependence on biofuel crop production. Well, biofuels are something that we are been lax at in developing. So a couple of years ago, about six, seven years ago now, I imported 10,000 seeds of these three strains of oil palm from Costa Rica. I grew them out and then handed them out free to certain farmers who came to me. And the proof of concept study here was to determine insect and fungal pests attacking the oil palm, determine the elevation limits to growth, determine optimal soil qualities,

5:01 climatic effects and determine productivity. This is what these oil palms look like today. They're starting to produce fruit. They can produce up to 20 bunches of fruit around the base of the palm, and those will eventually grow to be 20 to 30 pound bundles each. Also, I formed the Hawaii Oil Seed Producers this past year; the role is to give beginning farmers access to equipment to be able to extract this oil and also access to new trees. And so the idea is to try and use the 140,000 acres of available farmland this

5:38 year since sugar has gone out. We have imported an extraction mill. It's now sitting in Honolulu. It just arrived there from India. We anticipate it to be on island probably on Monday or Tuesday this coming week. It will be erected at Atto Assi's farm where, if any of you heard, he just gave a talk next door in the last period on sustainable piggeries. So there are potential new business spinoffs from this. So here we go innovating again. Potential new businesses include feed manufacturing, fertilizers, potentially latex and plastics for pharmaceuticals.

6:18 And this is a whole new world that we hope to open up here and enable even small farmers to be able to grow their own fuel. this computer is not an apple obviously because it's dropping my photos but there is a contact sign up sheet on the table off to my right here in the back those of you who want to get oil palm trees or are interested in getting information sign up there, give the information, I'll get it to you let me turn now to the consideration of our speakers Ray Maki was going to be here today. He could not make it. Ray is on your board of directors as a treasurer of the state body.

7:00 Unfortunately, he could not make it. But we do have five other people here who are very talented and very, very resourceful. Our list of speakers include Paul Tower, Vincent Mina, Dave Sansone, David Fuertes, and Bob Shaffer. And I've asked him to consider these questions. What do you see as the future of your approach in Hawaii and its contribution to sustainable systems? And what else is necessary, policies, education, equipment, to broaden your approach so that others will adopt it in the future? And hopefully they can address this or we can come back to those questions later on.

7:38 So Paul is running a food farm to table project. He'll speak to us first. He's from the company Renewable Resources. He sees education and technology as key to productivity in farming. and he'll discuss the opportunities this project entails. Paul, if we could have you up here.

8:02 Paul Tower: Thank you. It's a pleasure to talk to you. This is actually the first time publicly we're going to speak about this project. It's been going now for... This is the pointer. Okay. It's been in development four years now. in Oahu. Thank you. And it'll be the first project of its kind in the Americas to do what we're going to do. And it's very, very key, not only to Hawaii, but also the Pacific Rim. This particular project is a private project. We have help from the Department of Agriculture and ADC at the state

8:43 level. And it's very exciting, but it's all aimed at improving the future of agriculture in Hawaii. As the good doctor said, our problem is food supply, and it will continue to grow and be an issue for a long, long period of time. So we took a look at what we could do to utilize the existing assets that we have without importing new materials or limiting the import of new materials to improve our sustainability, our food security, and our overall security. Like it or not, we are in a very untenable position here in the mid-Pacific and we could be a target very easily.

9:29 Anytime you're on an island with an island resource-based structure, you're very susceptible to disruption in that structure. So as private industry, privately funded and privately focused in Hawaii, that's been one of our main objectives. So on Oahu, we think we have somewhere around 400 tons per day of pre and post consumer food waste. We can collect that at a cost which is underwritten by the process which I'll be talking about. We bring that in, we process it, remove all the contaminants, cook it according to FDA

10:08 standards, and we add lysine corn that we bring in from the mainland that we crush into a meal so that we have a protein level at least 12% for pigs and it'll be different for fish. But our initial production is going to be 10 million pounds a year of pig feed and that will be supported by production of renewable natural gas with an output of compost and other materials. As I mentioned before, we're working with agribusiness development. Our objective on pig feed is 50 cents per pound or 50% reduction of the current import price pig feed.

10:54 We think that as a certifiable pig feed, this will help restore the pig industry here in Hawaii that's gone from 65,000 sows down to less than 5,000 sows today. It's untenable to expect that we can feed our growing population with that kind of production. Just yesterday, it was announced by the State Tourism Board that we have new flights coming in now from several different parts of the Pacific, which is going to add 4,000 people a day in and out of Oahu alone. If you assume that we're at about 0.3 to 0.5 pounds per food wastage loss per day per person,

11:41 that's a supply that can go somewhere. And right now it's either going to a ditch, to pig farmers uncooked, or to HECO, H-Power, for thermal destruction at an additional cost. we can process that into usable materials again 10 million pounds a year of fda certifiable pig feed second priority is fish and third priority is chicken there's a million egg layer facility going in on Oahu right near Waialua. They have the permits, they just dug a well, and they're going to be using 300,000 pounds of feed a day and it's all import.

12:32 They see the potential for larger scale farming in the mid-Pacific, not only for egg production but also for egg distribution to other people outside of Hawaii, so as an export. Currently, state grants are earmarked to purchase animal feed here for farmers to supplement the high cost coming into the state. You know, our bill in this next session of the legislature will ask for a bond to support the private investment to purchase that feed and help build this $40 million plant. We should be in production, hopefully, by late '17, early '18.

13:20 Where are we? Who are we? We're a private company funded by long-term Hawaiian investors. We currently have 160 systems in operation on biogas in the US, 300 worldwide. All of these are my technology, my former company that I sold and I brought the technology to Hawaii for the main reason of making a difference to the Pacific Rim nations. My most current projects, Johannesburg, South Africa, where we're taking digester gas, we're splitting it, taking the methane off, using it as a renewable fuel, as a replacement for diesel at half the cost of diesel in Johannesburg.

14:03 The CO2 is recovered from the digesters. It's being used in my facilities to grow crops with hydroponics. CO2 is a growth medium for a natural growth medium for lettuce and other crops that are grown hydroponically. On Oahu, where we have real serious problems with water and low soil productivity, our lettuce production alone will produce 60,000 heads of Mānoa and oak leaf lettuce a month, which is in high demand right now. Currently being imported from California. We all know the problems of California water, and it's not going to get any easier from what the long-term projections are.

14:51 Our first system was installed in 97 in Sacramento. We have a number of patents on biogas purification and processing to make sure that the biogas not only can be used as a regenerable fuel, but it can be reused in a healthy way not to negatively impact morbidity and mortality of populations, both human and animal. So basically what we're doing, we're taking the waste products in, we're splitting them, we're recovering the metals, plastic, glass, and those are going into recovery processes that we don't control.

15:29 So it's a Y in the process. It either goes into the digester at somewhere between 200 to 400 tons per day that digester is anaerobic okay so it decomposes naturally those organic components and makes methane at approximately 60 percent and carbon dioxide at approximately 40 percent what we what we then do is we take the water that's in the gas and pressurize it up and then At that pressure, the solubility of the carbon dioxide changes, and it goes into the water. The methane passes through as a 98%, 99% methane.

16:10 Then we release the pressure on the recovered carbon dioxide, just like opening a bottle of soda. That's carbon dioxide at 98% recovered material. then goes into the greenhouses as a growth medium for lettuce, berries, all kinds of things that can be grown hydroponically with water that's recovered from the process. An interesting thing about food waste and other pre- and post-consumer food products like Terrell Brands, Fish Products, Alloon Farms, Larry Jeff's Farms, et cetera, is that they have a high water concentration. So that 75% water in that 200 to 400 tons per day is recovered.

16:52 It goes into a recovery pond. We use that pond to grow duckweed, which is actually used in Southeast Asia to purify polluted canals. And we harvest that duckweed off. If you know duckweed, it's a very, very small leafed plant that covers a water surface area completely within 16 hours. We take that off so many tons per day. That goes back into the digester to help us make more gases for recovery in the process. The materials then coming out of the digester are certifiable organic compost that can then be used on former pineapple land to recover the soil productivity

17:37 that's been lost for years in this volcanic soil, which is no longer sustainable without a significant amount of inputs of inorganic NPK fertilizers. Again, it's not a sustainable business model for the population of Hawaii. So we're trying to help be one of the sources that changes all this back to what's more natural. So we clean and condition the gas that's coming out of the digesters. We split that off with using the water and the gas. Then the water goes into the, as an R-1 certifiable water for irrigation.

18:15 This will be used by vegetable farmers and Dole for its current use in Central Oahu on pineapple. This plant is also completely closed loop. There's no waste, no certifiable problems, no airborne contaminants coming out of this process. So what we then do is we put the RNG, which I refer to here as CNG and RNG, in tube trailers And we deliver it to hopefully the bus fleet of Honolulu so we can truly say that we are running a renewable natural gas fleet at some point with enough production of gas. And isn't that what everybody comes to Hawaii for anyway?

19:01 For the paradise? Why see stinky, polluting diesel buses when you want to come and pay for an experience in paradise? So we're living, we're trying to live the INA the correct way by using technologies that have been proven like Lego blocks independently one to another and putting them together in a way that hasn't been done yet before in the Americas in a way that makes sense and that's producing sustainable technologies and a sustainable future for all of the Pacific nations that are currently under severe problems with global warming and rising water conditions.

19:42 So we will deliver to fleets at that point of that material and it will be used on a daily basis at approximately half the diesel equivalent BTU cost of diesel. Now we know that fuel is cheap right now but it won't be cheap right now for very long based on what's happening with world instability conditions. Our focus is we don't care because it's about sustainability in Hawaii, using our own resources, and not depending on what's impacting us outside of the state. So that's our mantra. That's our focus. That's our business model long term.

20:24 And I think all of us as farmers in Hawaii really need to think outside the perimeter fencing of our own farm. what we can do for the state, what we can do to maintain our own security, which is going to become a bigger and bigger issue as time goes on. The lettuce that we're making, we're going to have 40,000 square feet under production by June of next year, producing 60,000 heads of Mānoa, oak leaf, green leaf lettuce a month at less than half the cost delivered from L.A. Again, a focus. If we can support the people and the farmer of Hawaii,

21:09 we're going to be a lot better off. Anyway, thank you very much. And it's great to be here.

21:21 Bill Steiner: We're going to take a brief few seconds here to switch some slides around. Yeah, questions? Go ahead.

21:28 Audience: Have you discussed any thoughts about transferring that energy to electrical to get over those needs?

21:37 Paul Tower: You bet. That's a great question. Here's the problem. You've got a monopoly. You know about monopolies. Gorillas like bananas, but the gorilla will take the banana and the tree and your life. and that's what's going on with HECO and MECO and everybody else. They want to maintain their monopoly, and in order to do that, they don't want any other producers unless they are controlled by that monopoly. So in order to put a project in like this, it costs a lot of money, and they're not willing to pay the price to support that as a cost basis,

22:15 nor are they willing to guarantee that we will take so many megawatts per day of what you're producing without derating you. So they'll do what's cheaper first, which is more than likely solar and wind. The solar that we produce is going to be used on our site to fuel our operation on a daytime basis, and at night we're going to be using our biogas as well. Thank you. Yeah.

22:42 Audience: You said that corn was something that is mixed into the food waste.

22:48 Paul Tower: Yeah.

22:49 Audience: Is it GMO corn or is it organic, and where does it come from?

22:53 Paul Tower: It comes from Washington state and it's an organic feed corn, non-GMO. And we bring it in whole because it degrades less that way and then we grind it as we need it. Otherwise, if we could grow it here, we would. The problem is land and the problem is water. So we have to use our resources in terms of land and water in the highest and best use possible. Unfortunately, on Oahu, that's making more houses, which doesn't do anybody any good. We should be producing crops. Yes?

23:27 Audience: Can I hear you correctly that the material coming out of the digester would be organically certifiable?

23:33 Paul Tower: Yeah.

23:34 Audience: I'm just curious how it's possible if all kinds of potentially non-organic food is being food is being fed into that waste that maybe you don't even know where it's coming from, the hotels are giving GMO to the guests and that's going in.

23:48 Paul Tower: It doesn't matter because once it goes through a process of anaerobic decomposition, you're taking an organic and you're literally breaking it apart. So whether it's GMO or not, there's no germ left. It's gone.

24:03 Audience: That new DNA that's been created by man, that's gone.

24:06 Paul Tower: That's gone. It's called anaerobic destabilization and heat-based destabilization. You destroy it. Yeah, it's gone. It's gone. And once the animals, once the pigs eat it, as a certified pig feed, it's also gone. Because remember, we're heating it. FDA standards are 212 F at 30 minutes minimum on the raw food after it's separated before you add any other add mixtures to it which are cooked separately. I have a question over here. Yeah.

24:44 Audience: Hi Paul, coming back to your target segmentation slide there. So you're taking me from point A to point D. You know, we're all consumers. It's not like every day I can buy a new vehicle. So if that's long-term business plan, thinking out of the box, real-time, as a consumer, how can I know that your product is going to work in my vehicle?

25:13 Paul Tower: Because that's a great question. There are standards on renewable natural gas, and they follow what's called the gate price or the Henry Hub price for natural gas on the mainland. Okay, so it has to be 98%. plus CH4, 89% CH4 as a vehicle fuel minimum with a certain amount of moisture. I think it's two grains per mmBTU of moisture and O2 and N2 and so forth. So it's all very tightly qualified. Yeah, you bet. Yes.

25:50 Audience: All of your products, your fuel and your feed, will it be only for Hawaii or are you planning to export?

25:55 Paul Tower: No, only Hawaii. Yeah, only Hawaii. What we're trying to do here is develop tools that people coming from other Pacific Rim countries can come and learn from and take and then downscale for their particular needs. We don't want to export products. We want to export technology.

26:12 Audience: I just have one more question.

26:14 Paul Tower: Yeah.

26:15 Audience: This beautiful plant, where are these parts made from? Where is this technology?

26:24 Paul Tower: Oh, boy. it's European, it's African most of it is actually US yeah everything that we're using is made, all the equipment and everything is made here yeah yes

26:44 Audience: I was afraid you were going to say that But I just saw Dr. Murphy said there's 400 of these publicly on the United States right now.

26:59 Paul Tower: They are.

27:00 Audience: 100 methane digesters.

27:01 Paul Tower: Yeah, they are. And they are all either public or private projects.

27:05 Audience: Okay. I'm not saying.

27:06 Paul Tower: Yeah. We've been approached, but we are not. We want to keep this a Hawaii company employing Hawaii people and disseminating right technology to the farming community. Yeah. Good question.

27:18 Audience: That would be to circumvent some of the monopoly.

27:20 Paul Tower: Yeah. The problem with a lot of these projects, as I'm sure everybody in this room realizes, is without financial mentors, you're done. And in this market with cheap energy, it's very, very difficult, as the doctor was talking about, to really depend on long-term focuses. The state ledge is totally behind this project. They don't want to supplement farmers anymore for import, feed. They want to produce their own. And we're trying to help that through the private industry partnership to make sure that that happens long term. Well, we want to use this as a springboard for other innovation.

28:06 You know, separations of siloxanes, non-methyl volatile organics, all kinds of things. You know, we have ideas in activated carbon and silica and deposition and modeling that could really help to impact farming.

28:20 Bill Steiner: Thank you, Paul.

28:27 Paul Tower: Not yet. It may be a requirement by the US military.

28:37 Bill Steiner: Our next speaker is Vincent Mina. Vincent is, has, well that's not the right one. Yeah. Vincent is, has a whole systems ag for Hawaii Nei approach. His opportunity is looking at family farms as centers of community resources. And we'll just leave that slide up there for you if you want to give us a few words.

29:12 Vincent Mina: Hi. Aloha everybody. Thank you. As it shows up here, I don't have a PowerPoint, but I'm just going to share with you the path that I was on 21 years ago and how we innovated to actually be able to farm. I came home from a men's leadership seminar realizing that I needed to get off the trapeze I was on. I was a decorative painter. I used to do marbleizing and wood graining and stuff. But I wanted to work the land. and I realized the only way to really get from that trapeze to the other one is to let go of the one I was on. And so, and I told this story the other day in opening,

29:54 but I'll just reiterate that it was through the support of my family, my wife who understood my passion for working the land, and her being Kanaka Maoli and seeing what was happening and her growing up on the island, that we ended up going in this direction, not having any farming experience, not having any land. I mean, it was literally, I mean, looking back in retrospect, at 40 years old, it wasn't the proper thing you would do in solidifying a career. And so I was going to go work for an organic farmer friend of mine. And one day she came home with all these packages of sunflower greens.

30:36 you had them in the lunch. And all I could see as the provider, you know, because she was hāpai, was $1.50, $1.50, $1.50, $1.50. I'm going, hey, you know, I'm out of a job. You know, I can grow these things. Well, why aren't you growing them, bro? And that's what started our farm in the spirit that we loved them so much we felt others would too. And right now on 2,000 square feet we're producing 400 pounds of greens a week which translates to about a hundred thousand dollars a year in gross production now through that evolution of of creating that farm it has

31:19 a number of different offshoots has occurred because of the success we had on a small scale and being awake around what's going on throughout the state, it spurned me into creating conferences around the relationship between our body and the soil. As a matter of fact, Bob Shaffer, a number of years, was a presenter at those conferences. And the reason why I wanted to explore that is because when I would get up 4 in the morning to go out onto the farm, if I didn't feel that good, the farm didn't want to know about that I didn't feel good.

31:57 Things were ready to be harvested and it's like too bad, so sad, brah. And so we were eating organic and I'm going, what's going on? I mean, why am I not on top of my game? And so we started to explore this relationship between our body and the soil. So there's only two things I found in this process and in my life that doesn't lie. And that's the body and that's the soil. And so in that spirit, in this exploration, we built 12 conferences called Body and Soil on Maui and had national experts in their field come in and speak to that relationship.

32:35 Well, as we moved on, I became a, as we were putting on these conferences, I was also on the board of the Farm Bureau for three years. I was a secretary on the executive board, and I couldn't even get soil health on the agenda. And so I started getting frustrated around what that represented here because I saw what we needed to do here in Hawaii to create the kind of agricultural presence that was possible here. And so I talked to a friend of mine who also presented at these conferences, a man by the name of Jerry Brunetti.

33:10 I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he was, I consider him an icon in agriculture. He passed away last year, unfortunately. But he was introduced as someone who forgets more than I'll ever know. You know, a real brilliant guy. And he was able to articulate a lot around agricultural systems, whole systems of agriculture. And he said to me, well, why don't you get a chapter of the National Farmers Union there? And I said, National Farmers Union? I have no idea what National Farmers Union is. Well, they're actually older than the Farm Bureau, five years older than the Farm Bureau,

33:39 nine years older than the Farm Bureau. And so I started looking for members. I found a member here on Big Island and she said that, yeah, she would like to get a chapter developed. And so I supported that because at that time we still were putting on our conferences and I was like a one-armed paper hanger trying to keep a farm going and, you know, doing community work and all that. So the chapter began 2009. And the problem was that she wanted to take it into an anti-GMO organization kind of thing. And that's not where I was at. I wanted to populate the board with farmers.

34:13 I wanted us to be a solutionary organization. And so that took us in the direction of where we're at today. We basically have a relationship with legislature that's very positive. They really appreciate where we're coming from. They see that we're about supporting our producers to be able to farm. You know and one of the themes that came into this whole Convention is that that you know farmers just want to be on their land they want to be with their plants and and so the best thing that we could do is create a situation to where we

34:51 Get regulations out of the way so they can do what they love to do You know my wife is in a big process right now because of food safety coming down They're going to make us good into this whole you know documentation trip to where you're not really farming anymore you're just doing a lot of paperwork. You know, okay, you got to check off that I lifted my left foot and I put it down. You got to check off I lifted my right foot and I put it down. You know, it just becomes a real serious problem for us people trying to produce food for the community. So that's being rolled out soon.

35:21 So we're going to see how that all plays out. But I think there's going to be some big problems trying to have that, you know, be a situation where that's going to be attendable. so in essence um where we're at as we move forward is here's a family farm who didn't have land didn't have equipment and on 2 000 square feet on the 7 000 square feet lot are making a living at farming and the little girl that was in the womb who now is 21 has her own swimwear line and she's designing and fabricating and has her own business so that being raised in a family that was

35:58 entrepreneurial, you know, she was following her joy and created that. My son works on the farm. And as I teach him to manage the farm, I also manage his testosterone. And so, you know, we have a really good relationship in the spirit of having our family farm being what's important. And that is the reason why I'm able to be here this weekend is because my son and my wife are on the farm. That's not because I have a lot of time on my hands because it's only 2,000 square feet. But at any event, I feel fortunate that we're in the position to do what we're doing.

36:35 When it comes down to, there's two things that I would really like to encourage people who are active, especially in the millennial realm of these people who have a lot of passion around seeing systems be more healthy and more holistic, is to look at one thing I don't hear about, And that is when corporations were given personhood, that's created a lot of our problems. And also to look at the importance of food being our medicine. We just really need to pay attention to being empowered by our food, feeding ourselves,

37:11 so we can be bright and on the ball and productive and not turn into some couch potatoes playing video games and then wondering why things are so messed up. So just as you can see, I have a definite feeling for these things, passion around it. And at the same time, know that as leading this organization now, representing the farmers, moving from a place of looking at our producers and what they need to be able to produce food here locally for everyone. So thank you very much. Any questions? Yeah, man. Yeah.

37:56 Audience: Zoning issues is something I think about a lot. I currently live on residential land, two acres. But I'm into farming.

38:04 Vincent Mina: Right.

38:05 Audience: I have a forestry. And I want to develop the land to produce. And there's so much they can share. But when I go to the zoning board,

38:16 Vincent Mina: Uh-huh. You can't sell from your land? This is on Hawaii Island? Yeah, well, you know, what I think would be the best thing to happen in that spirit is get on the legislative committee, be a member of the Farmers Union, get on the legislative committee, and bring that forward that we can advocate then for specific issues that need to be addressed around your situation and others who want to do the same thing. You know, our zoning where we're at is zoned for a truck farm. So we're able to put a greenhouse on our property and do what we do.

38:57 But this is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about is getting out of the way, getting government out of the way so we can do what we love to do, which when you think about it, farming isn't hard, folks. It's essential. You know, when people say to me farming is hard, I feel it's kind of condescending because work is work, you know. I would really like people to get in touch with the fact it's essential. Without us, they don't eat. People don't eat. And last time I checked, we need food, you know, nutrient-rich food. So,

39:27 you know, please get involved, man, you know, in the spirit of be the change that you want to see happen and we'll support it. Our organization is definitely there in the spirit of that we don't have a family farming history in Hawaii so we're creating that.

39:50 Bill Steiner: Our next speaker is Dave Sansone. Dave is restoring Hawaii with food forestry and And his opportunity is maximizing productivity and livelihood. And as you can see here, he's the owner of Agroforestry Design, which offers permaculture consultations and has a whole range of other things that he does. Dave, do you have slides?

40:12 Dave Sansone: Yeah.

40:13 Bill Steiner: Okay. And this is forward. This is back. That's the pointer. Okay, great.

40:18 Dave Sansone: Thank you. Okay. All right. Yeah, so my name is Dave Sansone. and as Dr. Steiner said, I do own agroforestry design. Can you hear me in the back? Okay, good. I hear myself in stereo, so kind of funny. So yeah, basically, originally I'm from New Jersey and moved to Washington State to learn how to farm. I was there for 10 years where I was doing permaculture and agroforestry research. I was able to have year-round fresh fruit, including greens and berries, fruits, nuts, just through having a botanical diversity of site-adapted species.

41:04 Here in Hawaii, I've been here for about five years now, and have three gardens where I'm doing research on low-input, low-effort agroforestry systems. So basically, I like to call it, let nature do the work. so I'm trying to help farmers find ways to do a little bit less work and have more time for harvesting rather than getting stuck on weed patrol so yeah I'll just keep on moving right along here 10 minutes goes really fast so yeah agroforestry basically it's a new word for an ancient practice and I put that in quotes because here in Hawaii it's not ancient, it's still happening

41:47 As Uncle Chris Chang said, you know, the culture is adapting. And actually this image here shows a very resilient windbreak. I took this photograph a few weeks ago. This is down in coastal Puna, and we have the basic gist of agroforestry, which is multiple crops. So we have the coconuts above. We have hala in the background. and then what's that, beach naupaka on the lower spot. So multiple plants, multiple uses passive systems so systems that basically don't require a lot of work to keep on going and and this is a great example of this because we don't

42:33 know who knows when this was planted or attended last but here it is still going strong today. And that's really what I like to do because then as cultivators we can step away from the garden or the farm and then nature is going to take care of the work for us. Locally based, low input, low effort and resilient. And here in Hawaii, right, that's kind of like the theme that I think was held true through the centuries was using what you got here. So moving forward, so basically what I tried to do is, oh yeah, this kind

43:12 of changed a little bit now that we got it on this projector, but I tried to sum up some of the basic things that I'm working with. And here in Hawaii, there really are a lot of issues that we've got to deal with. Has anyone heard of the sixth great extinction? It's basically right now we're living in a time where we have record die offs of species, like complete extinction. Does anyone have any ideas of one reason why? Anyone? What's that?

43:46 Audience: Us.

43:47 Dave Sansone: Us? Well, it's not just humans. If you were here before, you saw the biochar thing. People can make nature better in a way. But how about a human activity that's a cause of the sixth great extinction? Who said that?

44:03 Audience: Farming.

44:04 Dave Sansone: All right. You know what? You get a prize. We get a vanilla vine just for you. Fire ant free. And yes, it's kind of a sad thing, but it's very true. Agriculture is actually one of the biggest causes of the sixth mass extinction. It started about 10,000 years ago. Land clearing is also one of the main causes of deforestation. So as we clear land for farming, we're taking away the habitat for other species. So how can we work with nature rather than against it is something I've been trying to figure out. So biochar, that's how I start. You get your biochar in the ground.

44:41 That's a way to increase your carbon, get homes for the microbes, and you get all these other benefits. And as I cycle through, all these things have multiple functions. So it's not just one thing that I'm aiming for. We get multiple benefits from each step. So now we have our biochar down. Let's get our IMOs, indigenous microorganisms. Now they've got the home. They're not going to wash away as easily. Then we come on down here and let's intercrop with native species. Here's where we have this conservation agriculture model where I've got moringa and koʻokoʻolau growing together,

45:19 and it turns out that they're both really high-value crops. The koʻokoʻolau, you know, if you plant it in a field all by itself, you know, that's not really such a great idea because it is a native species, and it's not really adapted to that. So that's where getting multiple crops in the same spot can really help a farmer, right? Because, you know, if you just have one crop, You know, a pest might come in and wipe you out, but if you have multiple ones, then you have your backups. And then we can also fit in bioterraces, or basically what they call them, vegetative contour barriers.

45:57 And basically this is lemongrass planted in a strip along a hillside. Like if you're walking across the hill, that's on the contour. And if you plant them dense enough, when it rains hard, soil will wash down and get trapped. into that bioterrace, and it actually turns into a terrace over time, and you didn't have to lift a shovel except for planting those plants. Vetiver is another great one for that. Also, lemongrass is another high-value crop, and with all crops, it's really about your marketing. You need to know who your customers are, how to get the product to them, right?

46:35 Ideally, cut out the middleman. okay so now um this is something that i really like to recommend and it's just say wait for it instead of running in and oh we got so much to do we got to get these plants in the ground get it all cleared and we plant and then what's what's next weeds yep so the weeds come so rather than rushing in let's just wait a little bit longer and uh this is crotalaria you see on the left-hand side, and you'll notice it's a weed all over the place. But if you sow it like this,

47:09 really dense, and this is not one of my photos, I just got that off the web, but it shows that you can fill a space quick, and then if you cut it down before it goes to seed, kind of important because it could become a weed in your crop, but if you cut it down very low, it'll kill it, and then that is going to create lots of mulch and then inhibit the weeds and also have some other benefits. If we get ground covers in there, then we have more weed control. That's ʻilima papa. I believe that is from Mark Hansen who passed it on to Keahi Tajon. But that's basically a ground-cover ʻilima.

47:54 There's another one that's erect. that stands tall. So here in the kalo, it works great. And that's actually part of how I'm able to get taros this size. I can't lift it with one hand. It's with ground covers. Biological weed control allows me to plant this and walk away. And then show up occasionally and then dig this out. Takes just a little bit of work. But it's really more about the mental work beforehand. So now if we have our green manure hedgerows, that's another agroforestry practice that we can add into our mix. Rather than taking one system, let's mix them all together.

48:37 And that's basically, once again, a row of trees or shrubs, often nitrogen fixing, that are cut on certain intervals. And things like hedge clippers, that's what Keahi figured out. Battery-powered hedge clipper makes it a lot quicker. I'm more of a hand tools kind of guy. I like to be close to land and see what it takes to do it that way first. So if you get those, it's gonna add your nitrogen as well. And then the prunings will keep the weeds down. And then once again, here's the lemongrass. So we have that as a weed barrier.

49:16 If you plant that around, say, a veggie garden or even around your farm, same with vetiver, that's a great way to keep the weeds out. And if it's planted dense enough, you can even keep things out like Wainaku, which is not a big, people don't really like it around here. But okay, see it's almost the same size every time. But we have all these great functions like nematode traps. Who knows how much poison has been put on the ground here to kill the nematodes. Meanwhile the crotalaria actually trap the nematodes. So if you sow the seeds of that, then let those nematodes get in there.

49:58 You're not going to get them all necessarily, but it really can help. It's just one more benefit in addition to the weed control and also, as you'll see in a second, the nitrogen creation. Pest trap crop, cranberry hibiscus. Sounds kind of crazy, but the rose beetles love this plant. So rather than trying to fight them, give them what they want. Yeah, smother them with love, right? So they come and eat this red plant first. They love it. And then they'll leave things like blueberries or whatever else they're eating. They'll leave it alone. That is cranberry hibiscus. Hibiscus acetosella.

50:39 And then intercropping is another great way to keep the pest down. Basically, the rose beetles, they go by sight. And if it's all the same food, like a big monocrop of it, We're creating a nice feast for those pests. But if we mix the crops up in strategic ways, not just planted willy-nilly, but strategic ways, and I like to have rows of complementary plants, then we have a lot less pest damage. And then also the aromatic confusers, lemongrass, just the smell of it can deter pests that are going by scent. So, all this stuff combines into a climate smart agriculture model.

51:27 Okay, I'm just going to wrap it up here. And so once again, now that that crotalaria system, it is bio-tilling. Those roots go deep. They break up the soil. It even grows on rock. Then we have our nutrient trap crops. Oh, I just want to mention, tilling is a huge source of the greenhouse gases. releases a lot of them into the air just by tilling. So when we do it this way, we're actually trapping those gases. Nutrient trap crops like bamboo. Plant those below your plantings or vetiver. And then the bamboo you can turn into biochar. So multiple functions. Here's a tough one.

52:10 Quesungual agroforestry. What that is is just taking trees, chopping them about four feet high or so, and then using the prunings for mulch. And this is a native tree called neneleau that I had so much of it, I just thinned it and I just prune it occasionally. It does well for me here, but can be kind of weedy in an open area, so be careful with it. But it's worked very well in Central and South America. And then biofertilization. That's nitrogen fixation. Those are the nitrogen nodules that you see on the bottom left. That's on the cowpea. which does very well with taro and many other plants.

52:51 So we get the free nitrogen from the air. And so that's just some of the stuff that I'm working on in terms of letting nature do the work. In terms of where to go in the future, I'm working with a group called Kekipi Kalo and Keahi Tajon, who is moderating the cultural panel. He and I are putting on a hands-on food forestry course, also known as the Hawaiian Permaculture Course and Donna was very helpful in making that happen so that will be happening this spring where it will be out soon about when that will be exactly. And one of the main things I think we need are

53:31 research sites around the island can be people's homes but basically since the island is so different and the people are so different all around the island if we all figure out where we live, what does well and then share that information with others. Just the cultural transfer of knowledge over time is going to make things better for us all. So I'll just cut it off there. Thank you very much.

53:53 Bill Steiner: Thank you.

53:55 Audience: I have a question.

53:57 Bill Steiner: David. We have a question over here too.

54:22 Dave Sansone: No. I mean, honestly, most of the work that I've done is just, you know, working with whatever plants I have at the time and putting them together to see what happens. So I think in the future, ideally there would be some kind of funding to support that because right now it's just me, you know, on my own doing my own thing. So I'd like to be able to do that though. It's a good idea.

54:41 Bill Steiner: Thank you. I'd like to introduce now David Fuertes. David is promoting community sustainability and has been for a number of years. This is a man I admire very much for his work in the communities that he's done. Please welcome him to the... to the...

55:03 David Fuertes: How do you use that?

55:05 Bill Steiner: Forward, backward, pointer.

55:09 David Fuertes: Forward, backward, pointer. I think I get them. I'm going to sit down. First of all, congratulations. You guys have some unreal projects going. Very innovative. Epic. I feel like one micro... We're just small in Kohala. But you guys are doing some unreal stuff. I'm going to read my stuff because I got a tendency to blah, blah, blah, blah, and then nothing is said. So I'm going to read it, and I'm going to read fast because I know I get only 10 minutes. Definition of community innovation, making changes or alteration by bringing new ideas or methods to our community.

55:58 Sometimes it's a full circle. As certain practices become obsolete, then as time progresses with needs and trends occurring, those practices and philosophies are resurrected and reapplied. Looking at the past, visioning for the future, helps us to set our present goals. There's a saying that vision without action is merely a dream. Action without vision is a waste of time. But vision plus action can change the world. Aloha, my name is David Fuertes.

56:45 I'm a director for Kahua Paʻa Mua, a very new nonprofit, 501(c)(3). Kahua Paʻa Mua translated is building a strong foundation, and we're trying to do that here in Kohala. So our project is called Palili ʻO Kohala, which means the shoots of Kohala. And we're kind of concentrating on kalo and also on sweet potato. Okay, so we use essentially parts of the mother plant, the shoots and then that's why we call it Palili ʻO Kohala but the other kaona of this is that seven of our farmers and our new farmers have never farmed before they're all brand new you know

57:36 and they're part-time farmers and they're trying to to learn how to farm so that's also the shoots of Kohala you know when Master Cho came several years ago we took him up to the mayor and the mayor asked him, Mr. Cho, what do you want from me? And he said, I want to build a learning laboratory on this island that will bring East and West together so that we can, you know, have world peace and also learn about good farming, which is natural farming. So the mayor asked him, where do do you want this? And he said, I want it in Kohala. And so that's the start of this project.

58:20 It started three years ago, with the mayor and then also R&D and other sources that we have. Whoa. Okay, this is our framework. This is what we believe in. You know, before applying any action to a project, for me, it's important to visit this framework. One origin. And this applies to your own life also. Okay? One origin. It's important to know your origin.

59:08 And it can be applied to your problems or your opportunities. You know where it comes from. Two, identify your values or belief. This drives your decision-making. Three, understanding your purpose, which guides you and have you answering, why are we doing this? And four, choosing your destination. Where will we go? How long will it take us to get there? And then after you've got that answers, then you can start working on your implementation plan. Okay, so we're going to start backwards. We're going to start with destiny.

59:58 So our community development plan, when it was developed, we want to keep Kohala Kohala. The goal is that Kohala community will produce 50% of what we consume by the year 2018. So if you look at your plate, and on your plate you can see that came from Kohala, 50% of what you eat. Either it was grown, it was bought, but still grazing Kohala. It was fished, it was foraged, it was hunted, it came from Kohala. So the strategy is, you know, to promote and support community of diversified agriculture.

1:00:48 So if you look at the origin of Kohala, and Dr. was talking about this. I want you to look closely in this area over here. Okay? In the pre-contact Hawaii, Hawaiians in North Kohala fed a community of 30,000 people. Today, our population is only 6,000 people, and we bring in about 85% of the food. Those food field system, those rocks over there, which is underneath the pasture, sugar cane was grown in that rocks. This was pre-contact era, before the white man came.

1:01:36 And then, as the wind break, and then they planted sweet potato. When we talk about growing on the rocks, Master Cho talks about the Mozambique desert, how he grows it on the rocks. So the food source, Puanui, estimated to be 25 square miles from ʻUpolu to Kahua. That was cultivated. 4,000 to 6,000 people farming that land. So, if we could feed 30,000 people before,

1:02:23 what is preventing us from feeding 6,000? How come? Okay. So we go back to the framework. Now we're talking about values. We believe that we can produce 50% or feed 50% and be sustainable. If you drive through Kohala, you see miles and miles of beautiful pasture land made up of cattle, beef, and also dairy. What we are lacking is the starches and our vegetable.

1:03:16 As we revisit some of our past, the ahupuaʻa concept. where each area produces its own. That's what we're trying to do. North Kohala will become a working food system, whereas we're working together to feed ourselves healthy foods. So the purposes are, and let's look at some more, working together with natural farming for healthy food and soils and using natural farming as a practice. Taro cultivation for food security and

1:04:07 economic development. We're also planting sweet potato with that. Our families This plant, every month we plant 400 plants. And 10 month crop, last month we started harvesting approximately 600 pounds a month. Very small, but it's a small start. But working towards, of course, higher production. This converts to 250 pounds of, 250 pounds, I'm sorry, 200 bags of poi for every two weeks. you know, that we can supply our community. Here you see our families working together

1:04:53 to clean our kalo and then also preparing our huli. And the end product is making poi and kulolo to create economic development. Another purpose that we have is raising chickens and pigs the natural farming way for food security and income. More for learning practices for natural farming and creating small production with our natural farming. Of course you know about that, no flies, no smell.

1:05:44 Okay, building a natural farming pig chicken house. This farm is about three and a half or four years old. It was all trees and bushes, and we came in and we cleaned it up. And so we built this structure, and it cost $15,000 only by material. And then our community just came together and built it, over 1,000 hours of volunteering. And this was one of our family's son Boy Scout Eagle project. In the back, we extended it 20 by 50, and we make IMO.

1:06:30 We're capable of making a one-ton IMO at a time, using our tractor to go under the roof and turning it daily. Okay, we also believe that growing it for the food basket in our community and sharing it civic responsibility is really important in our program. And what we do every month, we donate sweet potato to our Kohala Sacred Heart food basket. Equally important to production is strengthening families and communities.

1:07:26 Another thing that is our purpose is education, mentoring our youth to be future farmers. We have, and then we also give classes. In fact, we have one of our students that's going to be graduating this year, one of our family members who's going to be graduating this year from the college in tropical ag. We also give classes for free. And in fact, back there is one of our instructors, Leslie, who just did a class for about 15 on all the different type of inputs. So we provide classes for free, and that's through the Kohala Resource Center.

1:08:17 Another purpose is connecting to the ʻāina. It's practicing good stewardship. So if you ask me the question, Doc, C, how do we see our future approach to sustainability system in Hawaii? I go back to my opening statement, innovation. Certain practices become obsolete. Then as time progresses, it can become a full circle. So if you look at the first one, growing traditional crops using natural farming methodologies, That's mālama i ka ʻāina. This has always been of value for the Hawaiians.

1:09:02 The second one, ʻohana-based model farm, based on traditional practice. If you're Japanese, you understand tanomoshi. And basically, everyone contributing and everyone benefit. The last one is trying to create economic opportunity by growing food. Kalo, ʻuala, pigs, and also sustain the community. And that's through our ahupuaʻa system, where we can do it in each of the communities. Okay. The second question was,

1:09:47 what else is necessary so others will adapt? To me, I think the aloha spirit, ʻohana system, and no shame, share all your resources, share your information with others so that everybody can learn. And when you do that, you share unselfishly from planning to production to marketing. and so that we can develop strong individuals, strong families, also strong communities, strong island, strong Hawaii, and making it a wholesome place for us to live in. So I think when I was asked to be a speaker,

1:10:36 one of the requirements was, what's your quote on soils? I don't know who sent that to me. And I had to ponder on that. I say, oh. So in closing, my quote is, yeah, and if humans believe we are the greatest, then who turned us into dust? God created the microbes and us equal. Aloha.

1:11:08 Bill Steiner: Thank you, David. Thank you, David. We'll take one or two questions for David. Anybody want to ask a question? David didn't mention, but one of the important things about his programs is that he trains kids up there, and he gets, I think, 175 a year or something like that. It's just an amazing number of kids go through that program. We talk about developing farmers for Hawaii because the average age now is what's in the 60s somewhere for farmers. So this is where some of those farmers are going to come from. for the future. Thank you, David. Okay, we come to our closing talk.

1:11:54 Bob Shaffer. Bob is a healthy soils person, and he is, like David, partnering with these soil microbes and bringing on some very important things as a result. Bob?

1:12:10 Bob Shaffer: Thank you, Dr. Steiner. I couldn't agree more. As a lifetime composter, we are indebted to the microbes and I think we're fairly equal. Aloha everyone. I know we're at the end of the day and some of you might need to go. And so if there are questions on the project at Honokaʻa at the old Haina Mill that you'd like to ask right from the front, please raise your hand. We can answer your questions. I hope to answer your questions. that's in part why I'm here today, and to talk about the project that we call Honokaʻa

1:12:46 Earth Products that started at the Haina Mill that's down below to the makai side of Honokaʻa Town. The project is going to build organic potting soils, organic compost, and vermicast. Let's go through these a little bit, okay? A little background. Well, I'm a farmer. I've I've been a farmer, a biologic farmer, an organic farmer all my adult life. The last 25 years I've been consulting for farms. I'm an agronomist, and I work with compost producers, organic farmers, conventional farms. I do a lot of composting, a lot of cover cropping, and in general educate about soil health for farmers.

1:13:29 This site was originally, of course, a very large sugar cane mill. It's been abandoned for a long time. The property was purchased by Josh Gottlieb, I'll say a great guy, in 2015. We've been going through about 30 different permits that we are required to have right now to pull off this project. The site, I'm going to move along pretty quickly, so again, if you have questions, just raise your hand. There we go. So what's going on at the site? there's, it was a sugar cane mill and unfortunately in the harvesting of sugar

1:14:08 cane in Hawaii the cane grows so strong and so dense first thing you do is burn it, take off all the extraneous organic matter and then unfortunately the cane was scraped with the bulldozer up into piles so we take a little bit of soil off each time when they would harvest fields and for 60 or some odd years they would bring that material back to the mill. It was processed and it ended up being dumped as a waste product in a gulch out in back. And so for 60 years there's been this buildup of organic matter or had been a buildup of organic

1:14:41 matter and soil from the cane fields deposited into what I call the resource out in back. That's this area right here. Here's the three large buildings that are on the site. This is second largest building in Hawaii. It's a great building to compost in. It's got substantial concrete floors. It's 210 feet long, 230 feet long. It's 100 feet high. It's a A-frame. It's 100 feet high. It's about 110 feet wide. I'm going to install a passive compost or a static compost system into the building, into at least half of it to begin with, where we'll blow a little bit of air, lay down tubes

1:15:19 on the floor, pile the organic matter on top that we compost and put a little air into it. That'll go through the required pathogen reduction period for 14 days, then I'll take the material out, finished it out outdoors in typical windrows. So that's the composting part of the operation that will be carried out in this building. This building here is actually quite large. I'm going to build vermicompost in it. We'll be using the typical blue worm and the red worm going through typical earthworm composting in that building. And

1:15:50 then the third part of the project is this area right here. This entire thing is the resource as I call it. It was where about approximately 1 million cubic yards of the bagasse and mill mud was pushed into there, processing waste from the building. We just did the second round of extensive testing on this material. Here's the markers for the last round of testing where I went to 40 sites on the property. We dug down to 9 feet and 18 feet, took samples from that, submitted it to the lab that the state of Hawaii, the county of Hawaii wanted to see the material submitted

1:16:27 to. This is the second time we've submitted the soil and the bagasse that comes out of this for extensive testing for every pesticide known to agriculture, including all the, everything that you can name, including dioxin, and to date everything has come back ND, non-detectable. This is with very highly legal bonded laboratory. Of course, they're protecting their backside because you can't allow things out that have DDT or heavy metals, arsenic, et cetera. The University of Hawaii has two times now tested this material by taking it out, growing corn in it, harvesting the leaves of the plant,

1:17:07 harvesting the corn that resulted to see if there was arsenic or anything else detectable in it. There was not. I've been using the material now for a year and a half on my own farm just looking at it because this material coming out is basically sand and silt, a tiny fraction of clay in it, and a lot of bagasse that I'll show you in just a minute. It makes very excellent potting soil. I could compost it, but I prefer to just take, bring it up, screen it, take the gravel out of it and any of the larger gravel out of it and use it as a potting soil component because right now

1:17:41 on this island and in this state. I don't see very much potting soil built here. It's all being imported. It's all being imported from materials like peat that is not sustainable. And as a farmer, I have a need for potting soils. I've built potting soils all my life. I've built them for my clients. But I want to see a 100% recycled potting soil on this island. I'll build it from this bagasse material. I'll build it from vermicast in it. I'll put some compost in it. and then locally locally mined cinder. Once again I've built a bunch of the potting soil now from that formula that

1:18:17 I just described it grows great crops. I'm looking all over for cinder. Yeah it's a hard one to find it. Yeah right okay. So yeah so we've drilled down, professionals team we've hired twice now to drill down into this resource At 30 feet in the ground, it's heating to 150 degrees. It's anaerobic heating. And it's a very, very bizarre material. I work in Australia. I work with a lot of cane processing waste. But this has been buried in the ground for 20 years minimum, some of it up to 50 years. And we're seeing a lot of... Well, when you bring it up, it smells...

1:19:02 It's hot, for one thing. You can't touch it. from anywhere from 18 feet deeper. You can't touch it when you bring it up. It's 145 degrees. It smells like hot molasses. It's loaded with organic matter. It's got sand silt and a little bit of clay. This is primarily what it looks like. It looks like bagasse. There's a couple other better pictures. Here is the classic picture of this stuff. As you can see, you can still see the yellow color on the outside of the cane. It's still loaded with the vascular bundles. This is just a side cut of the cane once you bring it up out of the ground.

1:19:39 It's a very strange material. I took a typical mineral analysis of both the soil and the surrounding materials around the bagasse. We took a couple of soil food web tests from up higher in the soil. I haven't done biology on the material deep underground yet. That will come later. It's not only a bizarre material, but it's a very nutritious material. material with all of this organic matter in it with sand silt and clay I feel like it's a recycling project. The county at first wanted to call it that it was a dump, that it was a sealed dump and they wouldn't let us bring it out of the

1:20:13 ground but I think that we have successfully shown them now that no this is a valuable material it was put here incorrectly. Our organic matter and our soils topsoils do not deserve or need to be buried in the ground. I want to bring this whole deposit back up over a period of time. There's 1 million cubic yards so there's a lot of material there to be recovered that can be used very nicely for potting soils. Again, one of my concerns as the agronomist hired onto the project was to make sure from the front that this material is not infected or contaminated with pesticides, herbicides, etc.

1:20:47 You can go online and find that both the EPA and the County of Hawaii have done independent surveys of the old cane material. The only times that they have found concentrations of things that we should be concerned about was where they would mix those materials at the cane, at the processing mill, or where they treated seed. Not in the bagasse itself, not in the fields themselves. And so my projection was that this material would be clean. There's two professional lab surveys that are very expensive and very extensive and are legally binding

1:21:19 that have found ND, non-detectable levels, not even parts per million, but non-detectable levels of every herbicide, pesticide, fumigate, nematicide, etc. used in agriculture. So we've tested beyond just the things that are used in cane. We've tested for everything. That includes the heavy metals also. The heavy metals are very low in this stuff. My main concern was arsenic. Even at low volumes of arsenic, when you add phosphate to potting soil mixes or to something that potentially has a little arsenic in it, It can liberate that arsenic, cause it to be more available. We haven't found it.

1:21:59 We can't find it. And again, the U of H has done two trials growing out corn and did not find arsenic in the corn or the leaf. Yeah. We have been, excuse me, go ahead.

1:22:23 Audience: to chop up the cane and he goes into the bath where these rocks and the cane are separated and that's the water that goes down and directly from the crushing fields. So none of that is from the boiling of the sugar from the water.

1:22:49 Bob Shaffer: Yes, so this gentleman is saying that he used to work there and giving us a little description of some of the fractions of this material and how it got in here. We have been fortunate to have a number of people come into the office in Honokaʻa bringing in photographs, bringing in their testimony, as this gentleman just kindly did, showing us what happened. Because actually, part of the engineers, there's engineers hired for this job that are showing us and working with the county permits of how we're going to take this material back

1:23:22 out and in the way that it went in, we're going to layer it back out and so ecologically this is not going to be a disaster. It all has erosion controls, etc. And at the end of the project they're asking us to put it back into a natural state so at some point, long time up the road when this material is removed, we will replant it. So I know we're getting close to the end of the time. I don't think there's anything too critical in these slides that we haven't already covered so I can take questions.

1:23:54 Audience: Hey Bob, one of the questions I have is that temperature, if you get deeper, are you going to run into a methanogenic bacteria which is going to create a pyrophoric situation? It sounds like there's methane in the material.

1:24:08 Bob Shaffer: The question is, is there methane in it? Yeah, I'm sure there is. There's engineers that are working on that right now. It's not my area. I really don't know how to answer it any better than that. That's what we know right now.

1:24:20 Audience: Is there going to be any kind of test done as a substrate for animal, where we are now using as a mill run to use the bagasse? Because I know that people haven't been getting great success with the bagasse, but having it cured this long like that, in anaerobic conditions, I would think it would make a really good substrate. Is there biological stimulants you're finding as far as as the elementals in that?

1:24:46 Bob Shaffer: Yeah, so maybe we can use this for some IMO substrate. I think there's a lot that we don't know about the material right now. This is primarily my investigation. I've been playing with it, just seeing how it responds to plants, how I can use it as a potting soil. That's all the further we've went. I think there's some interesting stuff, especially once I get this into a screener and I can separate off the gravel. There's about hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of gravel that's in with it, unfortunately, from the soil. These came from our fields.

1:25:17 I'll separate that stuff off, separate the sand, silt, and the clay off, and then get that organic matter fraction to where I can get it separately and play with it, and we may find some interesting, useful stuff. Yeah, hi.

1:25:29 Audience: Are you planning for export?

1:25:31 Bob Shaffer: No, we're planning for everything. I'm trying to replace imported potting soils right now. I'm going to produce a really good quality vermicast. This has been my passion for a long time, and I've set up many compost operations. I'm completely obsessed with compost since I was 19, and I'm going to build really good quality. Everything's certified organic. Everything runs through OMRI, and I don't plan for any export for many years, at least as far as we can see. I think that we have a big demand for potting soils here and our compost and vermicast. That's what we're going to do with it. Yes.

1:26:02 Yes. Yes, I did. It's low in phosphate. This agrees with the University of Hawaiʻi analysis also. This material is low in phosphate. It's reflecting that it was low in phosphate when they grew it, okay? Anything that was up in the fields got brought into the resource. That's where it came from. So they didn't use much phosphate. They didn't understand how to do that correctly. They were using triple superphosphate, using it in small amounts and not trying to really build soil health, but just feed the plant. So there's not much phosphate in it. It's

1:26:34 actually quite rich in potassium. It's got a decent amount of calcium magnesium. It's got nice micronutrients in it. It doesn't have much nitrogen, which I don't care about that. So, yeah, I have. Finish up to that question?

1:26:49 Audience: My next question was, has it been tested for the microbial life?

1:26:55 Bob Shaffer: Yes, only up in the top couple feet, though. There's about a six-foot layer of clay that they put on top of the whole thing to seal it. So I peel that off and then that top foot or two I send it to Elaine at Soil Food Web. Great bacterial, great fungal diversity, decent bacteria, a great diversity of free-living nematode, which I would have projected because it has been brought from fields where it had soil. However, as we get deeper, I haven't tested biologically yet because this is gonna be very different. It's anaerobic, it's over 140 degrees, so I just haven't tackled that part yet. Yeah.

1:27:29 David Fuertes: Well, you know, for exporting soils, exporting plants, you know, it has to be, nematode is one of the biggest issues. So would that be able to be exported, you think? Export, you know, when you send plants to the mainland and you're using the material here, do you think that would meet the requirement of nematode-free?

1:27:55 Bob Shaffer: Yeah, I think what David's getting at here, potentially this material might be able to be shown, I'm pretty sure it is, free of nematode, plant parasitic nematode. Free living nematode's good, plant parasitic nematode not. It shouldn't have plant parasitic diseases in it, it shouldn't have plant parasitic nematode. I'm hoping that this is a, literally a sterile material, it's not sterile, but sterile of pest where we might be able to use to our advantage in some export situations that way. Thank you very much.

1:28:23 Bill Steiner: Thank you, David. Okay, there's a lot of things we have not covered in this presentation, and some of these are listed here. I'd like you to think about these because each one of these requires research. Each one of them requires some regulatory approach to handle it. They include things like invasive species, global climate warming, aging of the resident farmer population, which we did touch on a little bit, sustainability and growth. More on that is needed. Energy in an age of fluctuating security. And finally, how to deal with GMO technology. We don't want to go into that here because that

1:29:01 could run us all for hours and hours. But it is coming. And I'm sure that the UH Manoa is going to have an innovation meeting in about two or three weeks over on Oahu. And I'm sure that that's going to come up at that meeting. Some of you might want to try and make it over there. Thank you very much. You've been a good audience. HFUU, thank you for the opportunity from all of us.