IMO Feed Ratios, LAB for Wounds, Why Monoculture Works
A grower asks what to feed IMO2 besides beer spoils and kelp. Drake says brewing strips the carbs out of spent grain, so add a starch back in — a five-gallon bucket of chopped potato, about 10 percent of a hundred-pound pile. He also describes his own method: force feed or wood chips and dog food, mixed wet in a cement mixer.
A question on Angelica for the oriental herbal nutrient leads Drake to name Angelica gigas, which he buys from Mountain Rose Herbs since he can't grow enough in Hawaiʻi. He also shares a wound story: he poured undiluted lactobacillus straight onto an infected foot cut and the swelling and pain were gone in half an hour. He does not recommend putting IMO directly on a wound, but once drank a tea made from 10 percent IMO4 in Korea for an upset stomach.
On polyculture, Drake says he actually favors monoculture. He argues that IMOs watered into the soil, plus foliar sprays of fermented plant juice, trick the monoculture's biology into acting like a diverse polyculture. He also walks through IMO3 and IMO4 care: about 70 percent shade, a sheltered dirt floor, and never smothering a pile under plastic tarp. Cheryl adds her own method — leaves, branches, or straw for summer UV shade, and a tarp propped on sticks for winter airspace.
Later, Drake explains pile tech: building a central mulch pile that holds moisture and grows fungal networks, then planting crops radially around its edge instead of in rows — a method he credits for keeping his bananas free of Panama wilt symptoms his neighbors are seeing.
Questions answered
- 0:00 What substrate to use for IMO2 besides beer spoils and kelp? — Add a starch source like chopped potato slurry, since brewing strips carbs from beer mash and microbes need that food back.
- 1:36 How much potato to add per hundred pounds of substrate? — Roughly a five-gallon bucket of chopped potatoes, about 10 percent of the pile, though the exact ratio takes some trial.
- 4:48 What is the Latin name for the Angelica root used in OHN? — Angelica gigas is the species called for in the book; Drake sources his from Mountain Rose Herbs since he can't grow enough in Hawaiʻi.
- 13:38 What inputs boost flavonoids in the last four weeks of bloom? — Fermented fruit juice made with enough sugar to draw out the juice by osmosis, plus calcium and seawater.
- 16:26 Can lactobacillus be used topically, like in a bath? — Infuse lactobacillus into coconut oil and rub it on the skin for better absorption.
- 17:11 Has Drake used lacto to heal a wound? — He poured undiluted lactobacillus straight onto an infected foot cut and the swelling and pain were gone within a half hour.
- 18:42 How to polyculture a garden without too much competition? — Drake favors monoculture and says IMO and fermented plant juice sprays trick the monoculture's biology into acting like a polyculture.
- 24:22 How important is shade for making IMO3 and IMO4? — Aim for about 70 percent shade on a sheltered dirt floor, and avoid smothering the pile under a plastic tarp.
- 27:37 How does Cheryl cover her piles against UV and rain? — Leaves, branches, or straw in summer for UV shade, and a tarp propped with sticks for airspace in winter.
- 29:13 Is it OK to apply IMO directly to a wound? — No, use lactobacillus instead; Drake once drank a tea made from about 10 percent IMO4 in Korea for an upset stomach.
- 30:47 Can fermented mushroom compost establish fungal dominance in beds? — Yes, similar to brewery waste, though cultivated mushroom species may not be the ones that dominate once out in the field.
- 35:39 Who practices KNF near North Texas for local FPJ sourcing? — Drake recommends James Samudio in Fort Worth and Austin Moline down in Austin.
- 36:25 Can low-cost hoop houses help kids grow nutrient-dense food? — Drake runs raised-bed hoop house gardens with veterans, built from recycled tin roofing and PVC.
- 41:55 Does a grass area count as a dirt floor for making IMOs? — Yes, any natural floor has its own microbial zone that helps inoculate the pile.
- 49:11 How does pile tech work for planting around microbe piles? — Build a central mulch pile that grows fungal networks and moisture, then plant radially around its edge instead of in rows.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 IMO2 Substrate Swaps: Beer Spoils, Potato Starch
- 2:26 Force Feed, Wood Chips and Dog Food Method
- 4:48 Angelica Gigas for OHN
- 10:25 Alaska Grower Update: Potatoes, Apples, KNF
- 13:38 Fermented Fruit Juice for Flavonoid Bloom
- 15:36 Fermented Plant Juice vs Raw Juicing
- 16:26 Topical Lactobacillus in Coconut Oil
- 17:11 Healing a Foot Wound With Lactobacillus
- 18:42 Why Drake Favors Monoculture Over Polyculture
- 21:59 Teaching KNF to Kids: A Curriculum
- 24:22 Shade and Shelter for IMO3 and IMO4
- 27:37 Cheryl on UV, Tarps and Airspace
- 29:13 IMO Tea for Upset Stomach
- 30:47 Fermenting Mushroom Compost for Fungal Dominance
- 35:39 Finding KNF Growers in Texas
- 36:25 Raised Bed Hoop Houses for Veterans
- 41:55 Grass as a Natural Floor for IMOs
- 47:35 Weed Diversity and Pile Tech Planting
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
0:00 you're asking about the different substrates to use like your horse feed and those things yeah so we got lots of beer spoils and kelp off the beach and we could get some leaf mulch from under the alder bushes. And so we weren't really sure what to use to compost the IMO2. So those things sound good. The beer mash is similar to the mill run. However, from my understanding, the carbohydrates have been taken out of that. So something to supplement where
0:46 you're also going to bring in the other like high carbon source, I would put in some sort of starch into that. Like you said, you grow potatoes. So if you were to take your leftover potatoes and chop those up and make a slurry and add that to the water that you're adding, you can re-embellish that starch in a way where then the microbes have the foods they're looking for to eat. Okay, so maybe 100 pounds of beer spoils and five gallons of potato liquid? You know, the balance on that, I think you have to find how much exactly you're going to need to put in there.
1:36 um like you're talking about like a five gallon bucket of potatoes chopped up i think would be for a hundred pounds like potatoes it's about 30 40 pounds of potatoes would be about 22 pounds would fit in a five gallon bucket of potatoes maybe like 10 10 percent of your your pile maybe potatoes i i don't know on that ratio of how to put it in. But the main concept to know is that what you're looking for is in the original recipe with mill run, there were also like fats and oils and different things in the husk of the rice or
2:20 the husk of the wheat that when it's fermented into, you know, make beer and it's beer mash, that stuff is spent out of there. So just reamending that so that it becomes a complete diet, plus your carbon source you're adding what you're adding some leaves or something as well? Yeah, we most certainly could get some alderduff. So maybe a little of that when especially if you're making IMO4 with that and balancing that out. So in my experience recently, I've been using force feed just straight up.
2:56 I put it in a cement mixer and then I add my liquid nutrients and I spin it around until it becomes moist. And I make big hundred pound piles. Or I've also been using wood chips and dog food as a substrate. And I put those in the same cement mixer, turn it on, mix them really well, put the liquids in. And then that turns into just some amazing microbes. and so horse feed to wood chips a ratio uh so i'm not adding wood chips when i'm doing horse feed okay and so yeah so i'll just play around with that and just don't let the pile get too hot it sounds
3:49 like and we should have something turn out yeah that'd be awesome as we were as we were catching those left those uh microbes the imos over the summer we were calling them leprechauns as a good irishman should yeah we just we just did a collection out with matt drear that came out really well. So is it does anybody else have a another question here? Anyone? It's good to see you, Cheryl. I know, nice, nice mask there. so uh don you also had a second question then yeah and so uh angelica grows wild here and so
4:48 i didn't know the latin name of the angelica of your recommending for the angelica root I believe in the book it calls for Giganz, Angelica Giganz, I believe. But I've seen Angelica growing up in the Pacific Northwest. And, you know, I've seen Mike Hubble initially when we were doing this, did a few trials with different Angelicas. and there it seems to be very similar i i you know i don't really have other experience the angelica i'm presently using comes from mountain rose herbs so i've been ordering it through what
5:37 what they offer um and because i don't you can grow angelica in hawaii um but i don't grow it to a large enough degree to be able to harvest it. But it does grow wild. And I've seen it in like Arcata, California, just growing in the wild. Yeah, it's thick here. So, well, what variety is growing around you? yeah I don't have the Latin name I'll have to look it up and get with the horticulture people and find out and so on your YouTube channel you had the the one of seven and the two of seven and
6:29 then it kind of stopped on that series what happened there oh yeah well that's that's kind of the training I offer here and doing, I kind of realized that one of the things is doing these things hands-on, like in a way here of understanding what you're doing. Like it's, you know, I just didn't put it all up on YouTube, I guess. Yeah. We're learning from you. So is it going to still be okay if we come in February? How do we sign up with you and that kind of stuff for? I haven't put up the February class yet, but I did put up a course for November.
7:16 Okay. Yeah. In fact, I just had a couple stay here, kind of, they've been doing Korean natural farming in Oklahoma. So they came out and what they showed a video of what we did here. Let me see here. So this is a video they made here.
10:25 Those are beautiful pictures. Yeah, we're learning as much from you as we can on YouTube and then hopefully going to come see you and be hands on and really learn it. But we're trying to gather and do as much as we can so we have our, you know, a base before we get there. So do you want to share your successes so far? so far so good so we were adding so i was telling drake earlier we grow a mile of potatoes and so we added knf to the potatoes only once so we're donna ray and i are working five acres just the two of us and so we're running pretty hard so we didn't have a lot of time to
11:07 play around with it as we're just learning we didn't want to do the wrong thing we'd rather to do a little at a time rather than have a more on farm. And we did get the Mariana pump from Ben's Cleaners down in Washington State. So we're ready to spray, but I wasn't brave enough to spray yet this year. So we'll be coming to see you in February and learn all about it. And we grow a wide variety of mostly vegetables, but we have a bunch of, a lot of fruit trees actually as well. and so we want to learn about fruit tree work with KNF in particular and we do have chickens
11:47 and we haven't been applying all of that yet I think you did a little lactobacillus maybe on the chicken pen but not too much yet super rainy summer so they're a little bit smelly out there we did add the KNF to all the fruit trees we have a 90 apple trees and a few cherry trees and some plum trees and apricot and peaches. So that kind of tells you we're in a microclimate in Alaska. That's lucky. I mean, being able to grow all that food and have all that diversity. And some of that is in high tunnels. So that's similar to what I've seen in Korea.
12:35 basically what they're doing there is running like 100 meter high tunnels that are probably 10 meters wide. Maybe not that wide, but yeah, maybe. And I've seen strawberries, melons, all kinds of things growing. So does anyone else have anything they wanted to ask ask here yeah dean cheryl bob any any you guys want to chime in down what you guys are getting into with knf need need any i don't know talk story about it what's successful
13:20 for you this is cheryl it looks like there's some questions in the chat oh okay yeah thanks yeah the last four weeks of bloom focusing on inputs to promote trifone flavonoid and development what inputs do you recommend so the fruits are um i recommend getting into different fruit juices and that if you put those in um like like think of the fruits you want to Those flavonoids, all those things are concentrated in ripe fruit. So making a fermented fruit juice out of that, which just means adding enough sugar so that you really get the osmotic pressure to pull out the goods.
14:13 And instead of squeezing out the last bits of it, you just, you know, you just let gravity do the job and all the juice that comes out, that stuff. you can blend it or have your own mix and um on on any fruit um and then fit yeah with uh calcium and seawater and that stuff goes right in um and uh that's that's what i'd recommend for the last four weeks of the cannabis bloom is the fruit juice and really get a connoisseur of that And so you're saying someone here has sort of about learning about juicing the plants.
14:55 And one of, you know, making a fermented plant juice recipe from cannabis, I think, is like I've had that juice before. Yeah, the experience of having a fermented plant juice and the difference of fermentation versus raw juicing would be an interesting study to see about because that's what makes fermented plant juice so different is it's the living compounds that are in there and not like the whole plant ground up. like and and one way one way i think of it is like if you're if this is your body and you grind me up
15:43 it's different than pulling out and having my blood come out like bleeding me out in a fermented plant juice you're using brown sugar to osmotically draw just the good stuff out and leaving the rest of the junk back in the cell and so i you know if you're thinking of juicing it i would definitely make some fermented plant juice from it too. The video of the farm. Oh, thank you. So that video was made by Tyler. Anyway, they just came out here to stay with us and filmed what was going on. So I thought you guys could kind of get a preview of the farm. Dunga Dunga.
16:30 So he's interested in lactobacillus topicals if we cannot bathe in lactobacillus. So are you aware of coconut oil and coconuts? The inside of the coconut is actually a very interesting lactobacillus. And so I believe if you were to impart lactobacillus into coconut oil, and then rub that on your skin. When you start to rub your body and you can absorb things much better. So if you're rubbing lacto-infused coconut oil, that may be a way to use it topically.
17:18 I do have, um, I just was infected, um, about a month ago, beginning, beginning of, um, actually August, I cut my foot and I got, um, like pretty, pretty gnarly cut in the ocean. And I had some different solutions that people brought to me to put on my teacher oil and, um, some other healing salve type of things, but it, my ankle swelled up and started getting inflamed. But as soon as I got home, I took my lactobacillus and I poured that onto the wound and within a half hour, so it was totally not, not swelling and the pain went away and I could
18:05 walk again. So I know topically as a wound cure in the past month or so, it was able to get some kind of infection out of my foot, just topically pouring straight lab undiluted with the sugar onto the wound and kind of rubbing it in a little bit. It works charms topically that way. Well, this next question on how do we figure out how to polyculturalize our gardens without too much aggressive competition? I may be one of the few people in regenerative ag that actually promotes monoculture. And I think polycultures are good.
18:49 Like Don was saying, he has all this fruit from this diversity that grows. But I'm actually pro monoculture because I believe to feed today's populations, the production systems that we have that are optimized for monoculture are actually just like really good. And so to back all this up, why is because that's what I see be super successful in Korea. When I go there, it's what you're doing is it's a biological hack. And so by putting in the IMOs into the soils, what you're doing is you are tricking it into thinking there is a polyculture there.
19:32 because you have this diversity of IMO that you can either water it in or top dress it on and feed it the maintenance solution and it goes into the ground. And now you've tricked this monoculture into thinking there's a polyculture in terms of microbes. And then on top of that, if you're coming back in foliar spraying different fermented plant juices, different plant extracts, the OHN, the vinegars, the plants growing in that monoculture can think to themselves, oh, here's this exact food that I wanted, as if, in my case, guavas or bananas or
20:16 peaches or plums or potatoes or whatever you have left over, turn that into a ferment. And then that monoculture of plant, say I'm growing potatoes and now I'm spraying on guavas, it thinks to itself, oh, there's this other polyculture growing above me. And the biology doesn't know that it is a monoculture. So these long monoculture miles of potatoes we have can think that they're in a polyculture. And, you know, we all know the benefits of polycultures. they add like resilience and robustness and all these things but it's also that biology
20:58 that that diversity that they mix below the soil that matters so when you're asking about how to better polyculture I think that's like a real like a permaculture type of situation that reading about permaculture manuals where to plant things how to you know minimize your maintenance how to maximize your efficiency because producing anything is, you know, requires these principles like that you think about holistically. Like, you know, if the closer you can get your, you know, regenerative supply lines going for your farm, like growing enough mulch there as a,
21:39 as a, as a polyculture thing to go. Those, those are the decisions you need to make. However, you know, with natural farming, feel free to monoculture because you are doing the, the, what the forest or, or what this polyculture would be doing. You as the farmer, that's, that's your job now is to make sure that they feel that there is this polyculture by replenishing the microbes when they're, when they're necessary and really trying to establish those as deep as you can. And then continually feeding what would be there in a polyculture.
22:17 So, how can we develop a K through 12 curriculum to teach growing food as medicine, growing plants as medicine? I think curriculums exist. YouTube University is one. I do have my recipe book on the website, and there are recipe books out there. Let's see here. If I share this. here so this is one of my um you know the recipe it's not necessarily a k through 12 thing but look
23:10 if you look at this picture right here this is me teaching sixth graders and this is the mill run and we're mixing this in this bucket in the front here is the imos and we're mixing um you know microbes just the kids love it they just dive into it and um follow these recipes here so a curriculum I think you know I when I was teaching these kids this is this is what I would do with them is just go go through these steps and um you know collect the the IMOs we'd set boxes out in the you know bananas the bamboo um we'd go through all of these recipes together we
23:57 made um lactobacillus from their chocolate milk at school which which works but it's not uh it has kind of a weird curd on it um you know here's fermented plant juice super fun to do with kids. So having a, you know, having a curriculum is, you know, teaching, teaching kids, one of the KNF, you know, is just following these nine solutions, making those, you know, going, going through it with the kids. I mean, I used to, used to do this specifically. uh so someone here uh jonathan you are you're to knf and you're preparing to make imo three and four
24:50 how important is this um yeah well so okay so so the question here is about 70 shade 30 percent sunlight, I have seen persons not cover, but shelter it in a barn. So I make my microbes in a barn next to my pigs. Um, and it's on a dirt floor, which is helpful. Um, one, one thing I've seen, um, is that you can sometimes with the IMO is, uh, if you smother it with a tarp, like a plastic tarp, that's not the best idea. But here where it rains a lot, I've had it pull water from further away into a pile if it wasn't under an adequate shelter.
25:41 But, you know, just thinking of it as a living organism that you're growing. IMO3 and 4 are some of the harder steps to do in natural farming in terms of that they really require the most care. And so thinking about covering them, when I was first learning about natural farming, I went to Ginger John's farm across the river, and he actually built his own specific structure for IMOs to do production for his, I think it's about a 15 acre farm. And so he, he built a barn. One thing I don't recommend is doing it under your house or because it'll compromise kind of
26:32 the foundation of your house as it starts to break down the soil and bring everything to life. You kind of want to not do it where you care about your foundation and the rocks not breaking down. So I'd say the shade, you know, the more care you can get to it, the better. It's like raising a kid. You know, there's a lot of good things you can do for them. But they ultimately have to cooperate with what you got around in your environment. Can I add to that, Drake?
27:07 Oh, please, Cheryl. Yeah. Yeah. So the microbes are UV sensitive. So if I'm building a pile or tending a pile in the summer, particularly here in Idaho, it's generally not going to rain, but it does need the shade because of the UV rays. And so if you can cover it with leaves or branches or straw, that's what I like to use in the summer months. And then I have used a tarp in the winter, but I use sticks to create that one third airspace. And that seemed and then I left the ends open for air to flow because it is a living, breathing thing.
27:55 So we don't really get torrential downpours here. And I'm not sure where this person lives or what their environment is. But that has, you know, that's a lot of things to consider when you're looking at whether you need to cover it or not is what the weather is, what the temperatures are, what the ambient conditions are. so that's what I like to take into consideration when doing these piles but it is it's important to cover it with like a natural covering if you can but if it is going to be a torrential downpour like by all means save your pile and put a tarp on it for a minute
28:36 thanks yeah awesome awesome and you've been successful just covering with branches and sticks to kind of keep it more insulated. Yeah, and in the colder weather, just a thicker leaf mulch layer or straw seems to help a lot. So there's just like an insulative blanket. Yeah, yeah, especially I mean, thinking of it, I think of it as like kids, you know, if you're going to sleep outside, you need that same insulation on top of you. Otherwise, you'd freeze. So let's see here. Um, next, did you, oh, so, uh, there's a question. Did I try
29:26 applying IMO to my wound? Um, you know, I, I could, I don't think it's necessarily like the lactobacillus is definitely human compatible and the IMOs, um, you know, I used, I used to eat them and those things, but Master Cho, it's always say don't. And, um, uh, but however, one, one, one interesting thing is when I was in Korea, uh, at Master Cho seminar, I got a little bit of, uh, um, like a sickness, upset stomach. Um, and they made a tea for me out of their IMO four that they were making. So it was like 10% of that IMO4, you know, I'm not sure the exact ratios,
30:13 but there was enough that there was a little bit of like residue left over, you know, so imagine they're taking the IMO4 that's a powdered kind of dust and putting it into this tea. And, you know, it was warmed up. And there was also a mugwort in there, all kinds of things. It's, it's, yeah, It's amazing when you get sick around a bunch of natural farmers, how many solutions come out to heal you. But I wouldn't put IMO directly into a wound. I would use lactobacillus. And, you know, you wouldn't be careful eating your IMO and all that.
30:47 You know, you really, if you have a good quality batch and I mean, should theoretically be edible, but be careful. Someone wants to know if it's possible or iPhone. Hello, iPhone. I wanted to know if it's possible to ferment mushroom compost can of style. I wanted to establish fungal dominant in my beds from the compost. So this one relates back to that earlier same media that one was doing alcohol, like a brewery waste. And this one is now like mushroom waste. So they've grown different things on there. Um, I think it's also possible to use, um, in a similar sense.
31:36 Um, and especially if you wanted fungal dominance, although I don't know if the designer type mushrooms that they grow in cultivation would be the ones that are going to be your dominant IMOs out in your field. because there's a difference between like soil ones and ones that grow in compost piles and ones that grow in fungus. So, you know, you're really trying to, with the IMO in both cases, is you're really trying to propagate your soil, local indigenous microbes as well to be the, you know, the guys you want to grow.
32:20 um and you know one thing i find with um you know growing certain fungus is that you have to sterilize it and then really keep it like a monoculture of fungus and i don't know if that survivability would happen in the wild so um i would say that you know using any medium you can get and then re-amending it and then trying to get that those microbes plus this diverse soil microbes to grow is, is the target with any, any media there. All the, so dumb, the dumb, though, say all the garden inputs that boost our immunity. Heck yeah.
33:03 Um, you know, most, most of these things, um, end up in my kitchen, at least small samples of them, You know, I do a do a pour off from something. I know this year I was drinking a tangelo fermented fruit juice and just reconstituting that I had a bunch of extra fruits and fermented it and just add a little bit to my drink and just feel like it's some of the best energy you can get. And oh, so there's a you're talking about rosemary, dill, fennel, star, anise. um yeah any anytime you're fermenting strong herbs they'll be careful of adding those into
33:45 a drink um just just like spices you don't want a whole bunch of them versus you could eat more fruits and that that ratio just um yeah do do use caution there and also once you're done fermenting these things then all all of those things there are candidates to be um tinctured through through like the oriental herbal nutrient process where you just kind of like ferment first and then do a alcohol tincture. I would say those all have more value too. Dual root zone aquaponics, like that's like a sip system.
34:26 not too sure about the dual root zone I would just say just inoculating lactobacillus will be good um you know if I if I don't know much I would just recommend lacto it's always kind of a default here and someone's asking can you plant polyculture between your rows of plants I would say absolutely permaculture get think think about what's going to be beneficial what's going to go good mahalo drake for sharing your time with us i just discovered it can't have a few weeks ago have been meeting in north texas can't have growers not sure what would be best to use
35:12 FPGA that grows locally. So Dean, uh, I would recommend reaching out to James Samudio. He's in Fort Worth and he knows, um, about these plants right there, what you have around, um, the other person in Texas that I know, um, is practicing KNF is Austin Moline down in Austin, in Texas, which I know is, you know, Texas is huge. It's, it's, uh, um, so it's quite a drive, but there are some folks down in Texas that I would, um, look, look into and, uh, Cheryl, do you want to, um, maybe message Dean, the James's contact? Cause I know you,
36:02 or cause I I'm off, I'm off Facebook and all that. So I don't have that stuff to get in touch with him. Yeah, I already did. Oh, awesome. Okay. So here's a question. Can we set up low cost gardening and hoop houses so parents can be in the grow clubs and grow nutrient dense food for local high schools? That's, that's exactly what we've been doing here. I have a program that I'm running with some veterans. And we, we build these systems out of recycled tin that like roofing
36:48 that's that's common around here. And we're building these raised beds. I'm looking, looking for some pictures here. But I'll post those up. But we, we've been doing um this this raised bed actually i know where to find it it's um on on the pure knf website it's um in our in the knf times it is our we did a article on it here let me pull it up here and share that
37:33 So this system right here for raised bed gardens. So you can see this one kind of has a fertigator in it and it goes down. We're growing lettuces, onions, the same hoop house we built out of PVC. And you know, it doesn't snow where we're at. So it doesn't have to be that strong. this PVC holds up over this tent. This is our growing system here. We can put natural farming things into here, but typically it's done with just a little bit of a watering can or a spray bottle that we go through these gardens and just kind of get the soil early, put the maintenance
38:21 solution down, and then spray that onto the plants. And we've also been using a bunch of fish aminos and all those things in there. Just, you know, mixing up leaf solutions, grow solutions. Let's see here. Yeah, the design, you know, all this growing. There's that other picture of it so you can see it. But I believe that could be done anywhere. And we've helped 11 veterans grow almost 300 meals. So people that have never produced food before put in that system. We gave them a liter of maintenance solution, and they dilute that into their spray bottles.
39:13 And they each have a, you know, a two by 10 garden bed raised up that they can grow in. is tree moss okay to act as green mulch to cover up the soil i would i would think so any any um any type of mulch is probably going to be okay put some IMOs on it um Donna Ray was wondering what you would say about plastic mulches that we use need largely for weed suppression though when we cut into it and apply KNF solutions we won't have consistent roots and full ecosystem in the soil so much there so Don Array okay Don is thinking about
40:02 this comment thank you putting down fishnet planting strong much on top of making that Easy to lift off. Yeah. So, so I think that mulching, you know, like plastic, we have it today. You know, it's, it can really relieve your labor. I think that when I, when I see the production systems in Korea and the way they're being done there, one of the real good videos that I have on my channel is the strawberry farmer. Let me see if I can, if someone could find that and post the link. Let me see if I could find that. Let me see the strawberry.
40:58 It's not going to search there. Okay. Yeah. I don't want to, I don't want to pull it up right now, but the strawberry farm where basically they're using a similar like weed mat where they pop holes in it and the strawberries are growing from the top down. And it's really about putting good microbes into your soil. And it's a matter of, you know, what I would say is the end results of everything should be good produce and that your soil is getting richer each year where you look at it and you think, wow, it's more fertile than it was the year before.
41:34 because when you are in that situation, you're now entered into like regenerative farming and you're going to become richer and have more production, more stable results. You know, if, if, if any farming system you're thinking of, just try to bring that into consideration. And I know about, you know, farm labor here on my farm all the time. That's one of the major costs for me and everything is maintaining. So, you know, whatever you, whatever it takes, you know, I would think that that's where it is. If you could get a bunch of hay, use that, but, you know,
42:17 gotta, gotta either grow some mulch or figure out a wild mulch or, you know, and then half your labor is harvesting mulch. So it's, it's all, yeah, it's best to just do systems that you can get good rich microbial soil. So someone, Jonathan, you're asking, you mentioned a dirt floor. Is a grass area considered a dirt floor? I would say yes. You know, the grass below will probably die from the higher temperatures. And it may be sometimes hard to turn to get a shovel down. But I would say any natural floor has its own microbial zone. You'll notice when
43:02 you're fermenting a IMO three pile that you'll have a zone that's right along the soil line and is in a different zone that's kind of on the surface level. And that's why it's important when you're making your IMOs to mix the pile together because you're mixing all these zones together. so having a natural floor beneath that can facilitate that soil microbe interaction that soil microbe zone that's that's the important part is to is to have that so whether it's grass whether it's dirt um and if you're in concrete you can consider doing it you know on bring in
43:40 some dirt put it down if you have that ability or to build it in some sort of box where you build a wood structure, like a, like a, uh, uh, crate kind of thing that you could put your microbes in, which I don't have a ton of experience with, but I know, um, if you look at what, uh, pastor Lee's doing in Korea, he's turning it in, uh, um, kind of like a windrow compost that's bound on each side. I should, should find that video. It's in the, uh, chicken series. Um, I was showing a Filipino farmer actually yesterday to, to make IMOs in its, you know, most best way and, and
44:23 natural floor and a good way to turn it is key. So, uh, the good natural farmers are really interested in their practice. For me, I, and I don't know if anyone else finds this, but natural farming kind of becomes a lifestyle. Like I'm always thinking of the microbes. It's like ingrained in my, in my practice. I just, you know, yeah. Drink it, eat it, spread it around. Um, yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned the grass would be hard. Yeah. And kill. Yeah. Thanks, Cheryl. Cheryl, do you, you got any updates here last, uh, last few minutes? How's it been going in Idaho? Oh, good. Yeah. And I do
45:13 have some like public service announcements i guess like uh preston is teaching a class in williams oregon this next week um his it's rogue natural farming.org i believe and then chris trump has a class at the end of the month in grass valley um i just at the end of this month and the beginning of next month and then i'm teaching a course in uh lost valley eco village in october 11th through 15th. So that's what's going on in our neck of the woods. And we're just getting ready to harvest some spuds and basil. I grew a lot of basil this year and I interplanted in the
45:59 potatoes. So when you were talking about polyculture earlier and monoculture, like that's just something I kind of had to learn on my own, the hard way of like, it was really hard to harvest things in between the potato veg. So it looked great, you know, when it went to flower or it looked really pretty in the row, but it was hard to, to maintain and, and harvest in the end. So it's, I'm learning. And so next, next year, I'm just going to do like a row of just potatoes and a row of just basil and have the pollinators. I think I'm going to
46:39 alternate the veg with vegetables with a pollinator row in between because I did capture a lot of pests on some of the things. So I'm just trying to observe which things caught pests and kept them away from the stuff that I wanted. So that's just kind of a preventative in the beginning, you know kind of thing yeah thanks for checking in so yeah my question to you is is do you notice your soil is getting richer after each successive crop yeah yeah and um I know we discussed this before um about the weeds like so there was just the
47:28 thistle and the bindweed and the pigweed. And, and I asked you prior about, you know, using Korean natural farming. And so now I'm getting a variety of weeds. So that indicates that I have better soil health, right? I think is what you, we had discussed previously, but I'm still kind of frustrating that it's like, okay, I have a wider variety of weeds, which indicates better soil health. But now I'm, it feels like I'm fighting, uh, like a, a bigger army, so to speak, you know? Well, you know, you know, one thing that's helped me is
48:09 to change my mindset to say that instead of a bunch of weeds, a bunch of grass, really what I have is a wild grass polyculture cover crop. And so I've, I've kind of in my, my farming here, tropical Hawaii, you know, grasses, all kinds of competition from all sides, things grow here. It's as if you've irrigated your entire land, you know, think of how many things would sprout if they were well irrigated everywhere. And so, you know, instead of trying to, as I'm getting these diversity of weeds, and I noticed the succession actually going up, what I've adopted now is a
48:48 technique to more, um, think of it as a wild grass cover crop kind of roll and crimp it. Um, and also, you know, it threw up, um, um, a matter of, you know, like physically smashing a wild grass cover crop and, um, you know, you know, and then tools to cut it efficiently and then mulch it back on itself. So take what was instead of mowing a lawn. Now I think of it as I'm going to go gather a bunch of mulch. And if you followed what I've been doing recently is pile tech. So it's been super helpful to me. And instead of spreading all my mulch out and putting it all
49:33 around, I've been putting just large piles and concentrating it and then taking the microbes and inoculating those piles and thinking of it almost as like a big, I don't know, like IMO5 pile like in my garden growing and then planting concentrically around that and then letting the rest of the weeds grow as kind of wild grass cover crop and just cutting and throwing back in which you know each each person has a different setup and how they're doing it primarily what I've been growing a ton of lately is bananas and a bunch of my neighbors got the Panama race
50:14 wilt and bananas are very hard to come by but with mine with natural farming um so far I haven't I've had great production and haven't noticed any of those symptoms at my farm so yeah thanks so you're you're using the pile as like a hoogle mound or you said planting around around the edge of it? Yeah. So think of the pile as kind of this, you know, every time I reach into a pile of wood chips, it's moist. Every time I see that, I just see the mycelial colonies coming out, which aren't necessarily the soil microbes that I want, the ones that are myceliating out
51:01 in that pile. But what those guys are doing is they're producing the nutrients that as the water goes down into the soil, the soil microbes below are in partnership with the digesting microbes. And so by building a pile, these soil systems connect up into this fungal composting type situation that holds moisture. And then that transports it out to plants that would be planted near the edge, like radially. And so just thinking of designing my systems here so that that radial planting makes more sense than for me where prior to this, I was doing rows of things
51:43 and trying, you know, trying to mulch in a row or a windrow is much more challenging than putting a central pile and building the fungal networks out from this pile. And, um, you know, that's, that's been, so it's, yeah, pile tech with, um, you know, micro hubs in the garden. Cool. I love that. Thanks. So we got one more minute. Is anyone have one last question? We'll fit in here. Let's see. We've got another one over here on the right. Yeah. Helping the veterans, man. Healing on the land. You know, that's why I do what I do.
52:32 seeing, seeing people heal. Um, I did want to mention, I did put up a class for November. I'll also be having one in February. Um, and, uh, one of the best ways to learn natural farming is, I mean, not only trying doing living it, but also teaching. So going out, showing your neighbors, how you're making ferments, um, you know, starting to put lactobacillus into your washing machine, all these miracles of ways we can spread microbes to ourselves, our friends. So I highly recommend you practice and also go teach in your area. I'm glad. Thanks,
53:14 thanks, Cheryl, for mentioning all those courses. If there's anything else coming up, let me know, and I'll try to, you know, just spread the word. I think that's, it helps us all out. So So, yeah, thank you guys all for joining. Thank you for your time.