Nematode Balance, Fish Waste Tomato Burn, Macadamia Nut IMO
Drake's cow Julie, a Guernsey, gave birth to a black-and-white heifer calf sired by the neighbor's bull that jumped the fence. The teats were so hard at first that the milking machine would not fit, so Drake's wife hand-milked while they built a pen to manage nursing. Drake's mother, Jennifer ("Bird"), joins the show after finishing his weeklong KNF course. She tasted knfStructure (calcium phosphate) for the first time, comparing a good batch against one she made years ago that came out tasting like vinegar.
Steve, a student from near Melbourne, Australia, brought compacted clay soil back to life with liquid IMO, seeing mushroom fruiting bodies appear around his root zones for the first time. Ginger for making medicine costs him about $90 for two kilos, so Drake suggested he start growing his own.
The group reviews the four kinds of soil nematodes: bacterial feeders, fungal feeders, root feeders (the pest), and predatory nematodes, which eat the root feeders and are the ones farmers need more of. Jennifer's marigold planting did not visibly reduce nematode pressure. A separate story: burying a whole fish-waste trough under a row of greenhouse tomatoes produced huge leafy growth but almost no fruit, about eight tomatoes total, because the excess nitrogen kept roots from forming the soil connections a plant needs to pull other nutrients.
A side-by-side IMO experiment pairs decomposed wood chips and macadamia nut butter against the usual senior horse feed. The mac nut pile heated up fast, needed turning twice in a sitting, and smelled like nut loaf; the horse-feed pile ran 118-120°F and smelled like a bakery, dropping about 10 degrees each time it was turned, down to 95°F. Later, Dr. Hoon Park, the Hilo pediatrician who arranged Drake's early trips to Korea and translated for him there, visits for dinner, and Drake shares that Master Cho is now in assisted living and hard to reach. A closing question covers doing KNF solutions safely as a diabetic: dilute more, mind your intention, and pair sugary solutions with a protein source like fish amino acid to blunt the blood sugar spike.
Questions answered
- 12:32 How does calcium phosphate (the structure) taste when made right versus wrong? — A properly made batch tasted good, but one made without close supervision came out tasting like vinegar.
- 15:43 Why is ginger so expensive for a farmer to use in medicine? — Steve pays about $90 for two kilos of ginger in Australia, so Drake suggested he start growing his own.
- 17:20 What happened after applying liquid IMO to compacted clay soil? — Mushroom fruiting bodies started showing up around the root zone, a sign the soil was coming back to life.
- 21:30 Why do you want to get rid of nematodes? — You don't get rid of them, you balance them, since every nematode has a role once the food web is complete.
- 22:47 What are the four types of nematodes in the soil? — Bacterial feeders, fungal feeders, root feeders (the pest), and predatory nematodes, which eat the root feeders.
- 26:51 What went wrong burying a trough of fish waste under a row of tomatoes? — The plants turned into a leafy jungle with almost no fruit, about eight tomatoes, because excess nitrogen kept roots from forming soil connections.
- 33:41 What happens when you add macadamia nut butter to an IMO pile of wood chips? — The pile heated up so fast it had to be turned twice in one sitting and smelled like nut loaf.
- 38:58 How do you judge an IMO pile's progress without lab testing? — Watch the temperature swings and smell, which shifts from sweet and bakery-like early on to more foresty as it dries.
- 41:25 Why did one spot in the pile turn gray and overheat? — Drake suspects the barn cat used that damp spot as a litter box, adding extra moisture and heat.
- 45:20 Who is Dr. Hoon Park and what's his role in bringing KNF to Hawaii? — A Hilo pediatrician who arranged and translated Drake's early trips to Korea, exposing Hawaii and the West to KNF.
- 55:11 What's the latest on Master Cho's health and whereabouts? — He's in an assisted-living home and his wife is limiting contact, so even Dr. Park hasn't been able to reach him.
- 1:01:43 How can a diabetic person safely use KNF solutions like FPJ, given the sugar? — Dilute the solution more, focus on your intention, and pair it with a protein source like fish amino acid to blunt the sugar spike.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 Intro
- 0:44 Welcome
- 1:37 I Ching Reading & Reflection: Return
- 3:43 Farm Update: New KNF Class, New Baby Dairy Calf
- 7:50 Welcoming the Office Hour Folks
- 9:04 Jennifer's KNF Training Testimony
- 12:32 Tasting the Structure (Calcium Phosphate)
- 15:10 Steve From Australia
- 18:23 Nutrient Cycle & Jennifer's Greenhouse
- 21:30 Balancing Nematodes for Soil Fertility
- 26:51 Fish Waste Tomato Trough Goes Wrong
- 31:39 Highlights From the November Training
- 33:41 Macadamia Nut Butter IMO Pile Experiment
- 38:58 Reading an IMO Pile by Smell and Sight
- 45:20 Dr. Hoon Park: Bringing KNF to Hawaii
- 59:35 Sharing Your Life's Purpose
- 1:01:43 KNF for Diabetics
- 1:03:58 People Who Point You in the Right Direction
- 1:06:14 Thanks, Everyone
- 1:07:04 KNF as a Multi-Generational Practice
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
0:30 Hey, good morning. Welcome to Office Hours, Korean Natural Farming. Yeah, happy Sunday, K&F family. family and friends, enemies, everybody's welcome today. Sorry, I'm kind of banging this thing around. I'm just trying to adjust this for one sec. Get rid of this filter because it's in my way.
1:18 But yeah. Hey, so welcome to Korean Natural Farming Office Hours. We got a special episode for you today, but before we dive into that, just sound check everyone, it's all coming through, I hope it's lost one of my monitors, but that's okay. So we're going to start with a bit of higher wisdom here. So today, today, today, today, today is the return. So receiving, or no, let's start with a time of darkness comes to a close.
2:03 So receiving this hexagram is a sign that you have reached a turning point. This moment is akin to the winter solstice. The greatest adversity is past. And the light is beginning to return. Nonetheless, one cannot force the completion of a change, and it is wise to rest. Act only when you can move gently and innocently, and all will be well. Foo, that's the name of this thing, also comes as a reminder to return to the light in yourself. Growth is only possible when we relinquish the expression of the ego, which is pride, impatience, anger, and desire.
3:00 To act forcefully or ambitiously now will only generate misfortune. Let things develop naturally in their own way. Simply observe and accept changes As you observe and accept the rising of the sun Allow yourself to rest To gather strength for the time of growth ahead By holding to modesty Gentleness and correct conduct You prepare the ground for a fruitful blossoming When the light fully returns so I definitely feel some resonance on that one
3:50 returning, kind of finishing up a week-long Korean natural farming course here it's been a heck of a week, I tell you this week also in addition to teaching Korean natural farming Had my pump that supplies all the water to this place break. Go out of service. Had to go in the middle of the class. Fix that. Also, we welcomed a new baby cow into the pasture. Our cow Julie, big Guernsey cow, gave birth. and um so first time uh dairy cow birth on the farm and she gave birth to a girl which is pretty
4:44 awesome which means maybe the stakes gotta wait a little bit longer but at least now more dairy in our future which is good um and it turns out her father was the was my neighbor's bull who jumped over the fence because she came out black and white. Super cute cow. I do got a pick, I think. Do I got a pick? I definitely got a video, but let me see here if I got a picture. But she, you know, it's been a challenge milking with her because, here's a little picture. baby cow um standing next to her mom there um see if the camera will refocus maybe yeah um
5:33 but you know it's been been an interesting thing getting uh you know at first we thought she had a mastitis because the teats were so hard and so we're trying to get the milky machine on there. The teats were just so hard they wouldn't even fit on. So, um, and all the colostrum coming out. So my wife's been hand milking a little bit and we've been using the machine a bit and learning how to, we built a baby pen, how to keep the baby off and then put the baby on at the right time so that, um, we're taming the cow as well. The new cow as part of an activity, but, um,
6:09 But she's a Holstein with a Guernsey mom, so should be really good dairy genetics for us. Really looking forward to raising another dairy cow, increasing my herd. You know, I mean, one of the benefits of having the dairy cow is that more curds, more whey, more, you know, it's more yogurt for us. And it's more milk. I love milk. and, you know, any excess curds is more food for the pigs. Also this week, you know, speaking of just a wild week, in the midst of the class I go to pick up the pig food from a distributor.
6:56 They give me their excess bread, milk, eggs, cracked or broken or expired, and got zero. So, you know, just a heck of a week. So I'm glad you're coming around, getting returned, you know, feeling like, you know, this goodness coming to a close here. We are in the last day of our course. And so I've also, you know, in addition to all that, been up every night turning the IMO pile at 10 o'clock at night, making sure it stays just sweet and everything. and it's been just really a good thing. But also, you know, talk about intensive training
7:44 and just like thorough and comprehensive and going through it all. But, you know, before I get too much into that, we'll just, you know, welcome some folks here. We got Stone Mason in the house. We got Goofman. Always good to see you. Joe from New York. We got Rainbow Possum up in Washington State. Yo, hey. We got Mark in the house. Always good to have him. It's Ambruster Throckmorton. That's the name because I was trying to remember the other day. There's another student here, Steve, and I was telling him about how, you know, Mark and I
8:24 built this wall and we really in 2020 or yeah January 2020 really improved the farm and the learning center and everything and just so thankful for that you know every student that comes through makes a contribution somehow whether physically ideologically spiritually you know it's just I'm so grateful to have be a teacher where people come from all over the world and can interface here and learn natural farming, go home with something more and leave, you know, great things here behind. And so with that, I wanted to introduce this wonderful person here to my right, I guess, your left.
9:14 I don't know. Maybe it's your right, too. but this is Bird on the KNF office hours. That's what she's known as, but I'll let her introduce herself a little bit here. Aloha. Good morning, KNF family. I'm Drake's mom. My name's Jennifer, and I had the amazing experience of doing Drake's class this week. I did it about, I don't know, seven or eight years ago. And I got to find out how much I don't know, how much I can improve. I got all my questions answered. And it was just fantastic.
10:02 And I'm so, so inspired to apply what I learned. I'm grateful to Drake for everything that I learned from you. Yeah. In this course, too, I think we're going through everything hands-on, right? Yeah. And has that been helpful for you? Because you've made some of these solutions before, right? Yeah, I've actually, I never have done the structure. It's just a little too scary. The fire is a little too scary for me. I've never done that, but I did it with Draken in the class. Um, so that was good. And I never have succeeded in making IMO.
10:49 I have gotten it way too hot, way too smelly. So, uh, this time I had the job the first thing in the morning at 6am of, um, turning the pile and watching it and smelling it and feeling it. And, um, I am so stoked because we totally succeeded. We also succeeded in our collection. I've never succeeded with that either. So now I feel a little more confident that I can do it and I want to do it. And in fact, I'm going to take this and teach elsewhere. I work at an addiction center. I teach yoga there. And I'm going to start to teach a gardening session there once a week, which I'm really
11:36 looking forward to. Now I feel like I know what I can talk about. so more confidence um yeah so i had made a lot of the solutions but to see the doing it with drake and seeing what works and what doesn't work sorry i'm just going to tilt that right okay that's better yeah no sorry anybody no no you're good you're good okay but if you talk directly into this like an ice cream cone oh like okay there all right there we go because of doing it hands-on methodically step by step you see how it all integrates how it all fits together and I've never done so much so fast
12:22 exhausting in a way and at the same time going over reviewing every single day I I feel really good. So thank you. Yeah. And, and so I'm going to turn my mic up a little bit. I think just let me know what sound levels you guys, cause we're, you know, kind of got two mics and I don't want to echo. So if it's echoing, let me know as well. Um, but you know, I, I, one of the, one of the interesting things that I thought in this class, I mean, cause this just happened, you know, there's been so many interesting things, but just the other day, um, we were tasting the kalfos, the structure.
13:00 So can you tell a little bit about what happened with that? Yeah. So first of all, I had never tasted it before. And so I went, whoa, whoa. I mean, my whole mouth just exploded. We tasted a batch that Drake had made a while ago. which was a good batch. And then we tasted one that one of the graduates from Drake's class had made that he had given me some. And that was also really, really good. And then we tasted a batch that I made with someone else a while ago. And it was vinegar. It tasted really bad. And I said,
13:48 okay, well, now I know how it's supposed to taste. And that was amazing to see how different places in your tongue where you can taste not only the actual taste, but the feeling of it, the texture, the chalky, that kind of thing in your mouth too was interesting. Comparing that was very eye-opening. And tongue expanding. Yes, and kind of, wow! Oh my gosh. Yeah, no, I find, and I think Steve here also appreciated that. you know i mean he's he's come all the way uh from australia up here i think he's my furthest
14:30 away student yet i i'm pretty sure i i don't know i have to double check on that but um but that he you know he's been practicing a bit but but what he's been able to get here now this week has been you know the the validation i think and did he you know you i mean you see like what What do you think of, because he didn't want to, he's at the beach right now, which is probably a good choice. It's his first time off the farm in the whole week. So he's like, beach? Yeah, that sounds good. Well, he did go to the farmer's market with you, right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
15:10 But what do you, like, let's just pretend like we're him. And what do you think his experience has been? I think he has hope. I think that's the biggest thing. He has five acres. Is that right? He has actually like two. He has like an orchard and he has another place, I believe. Okay, but he has significant acreage size. And the scope of trying to regenerate that, he talked a lot about his compaction and things, you know, that he inherited this. Oh, I mean, he bought it, but he came upon this land that is far less than ideal. and he had been starting to do the pure KNF
15:53 and had some success for sure. But now to see, now he knows really how to do it and the process of all of it. And he has also the confidence to make the liquid even IMO. That's one thing that he really learned how to do too. He was really excited about that. To be able to apply that on his farm, he has an orchard of pears and apples. and also it was amazing to hear how expensive ginger is for him to make the medicine. I was so shocked. You guys, it's like $90 for two kilos. Is that right? $90. It's insane. So I had a great idea. I said, why don't you start growing ginger?
16:38 And we talked about how he can do that in Australia. And, you know, here we go. Maybe that'll be a great crop for him. yeah yeah yeah and he he's in um from what i understand like southern australia near near melbourne melbourne yeah yeah you gotta say it the right way because americans say melbourne but melbourne he yeah it's interesting um and so he he's also near the ocean but he's more temperate he he said you know an analog for where he's at is more uh pacific northwest so uh for for me you know because i'm more familiar with that that region in in the
17:20 states here um but yeah he um yeah he so one of the first things he told me and just he was like you know we got this clay this compaction and he put the liquid imos out and then all of a sudden he's seeing uh mushroom fruiting bodies around his root zone that's right and and that being um you know, just like, like, you know, it's like, okay, you do natural farming. How do you know it's working? Right, right. This is an open question of, and, and, you know, because you can do, you can analyze it so many ways. You can scientifically go in, you can, you can do a
18:02 microscopic analysis. You can, you know, look at your, you know, are your plants tasting better? Are they bigger? There's so many different ways to analyze this, but seeing the mushrooms, seeing a soil come to life is a sign of like, okay, like I didn't see that before. And so for you in your applications, you're largely growing in more of raised bed type application. Yeah. And what do you see when you're doing natural farming versus when you're not? well when i'm not is when i'm not doing it often enough because that's the only thing i do is
18:43 natural farming but i don't i'm not as consistent as i could be which i really understand the importance of that and what i really learned was the that i need to alternate my application of solutions much more so be more in tune with my plants um i had been a little lazy and just kind of putting the maintenance out there pretty faithfully and a little bit of fuel here and there and not really getting the calcium in there and realizing now, oh my gosh, I mean, I grow okay, but it could be so much better. So that's the inspiration that I have. We also have a hoop house
19:23 with tomatoes. And I learned that I can make the food with the tips, the groin tips, the suckers that you're going to pop off anyway on the tomatoes. I'm excited to apply that as a food. And also that I can use unripe tomatoes during the, I guess it's the reproduction phase during that time. That would be the food that I would apply at that time. And then ripe tomatoes later for other times. And I thought, oh my gosh, that sounds so exciting. I just want to try and grow the very, very best. It'll be fun. and and so yeah i mean we we went a fair amount over um the nutrient cycle right
20:07 yeah and that and when you're talking about you know kind of eye-opening for for your practice you've been uh using a lot of maintenance in you know just just in general like pretty pretty consistently but then when we went over nutrient cycle you kind of saw more about this oscillation and then kind of the like chubby skinny and just more like you're, is it fair to say that your understanding got a bit more broad of understanding like how more to alternate these solutions? Yeah, it's very fair to say that. And also to tune my eyes that I have to really be
20:46 looking at my plants and anticipate it. No, you know, I have a lot to learn that way to be, to hone my eyes. But I have hope. Yeah, yeah. And you've been growing amazing beans. French beans and lettuces and greens, all kinds of greens and beets. And those have been the French beans. I mean, oh my gosh, I just love those. So, you know, and I know that I can do that better than I've done, so. And the tomatoes. And that's going to be my next big project. It's a big greenhouse. So I'm excited.
21:29 And I'm also excited to kind of, you know, now that you've refreshed, taken this class, really gotten back into it. I'm also excited to kind of follow up with you. I mean, it's easy because you live here. But to follow up with you to really solve the nematode issue. because that was actually one of the first things we talked about in this class. And you asked, how do I get rid of these nematodes? So looking at this now, what would you say a little bit more about, do you learn more about the nematodes in solving this problem? What are your thoughts on that?
22:13 Well, what I learned about that, it was the first day, And that was my first burning question was, why do you want to get rid of them? You just want to balance them. And then I was like, oh, okay. You know, I'm coming from some kind of old school of not that I would use a pesticide or a fungicide or a nemicide or some kind of side. I wouldn't do that. But, you know, what can I do from natural farming? And now what I understand is as long as everybody has what they need, everybody will get along just fine. There won't be too much of anything. There will be the balance.
22:51 And so I have not been providing a balance for them to be balanced. So that's up to me and I'll give it a shot. And we also, you know, we talked about, you know, the four different types of nematodes. do a little review here which were those oh no do i have to name them oh no oh no not good well so so we got the bacterial feeders right yeah and then there's fungals fungal feeders that's a good guess no and then the one that's causing you issue root root feeders yes and and what are what are we kind of missing in in there to balance the nematodes it's the fourth one Oh, I don't remember.
23:37 It's the predatory nematodes. Oh, okay. The predatory ones are, there's not enough of them. Yeah, and they're much larger, right? Oh, that's right. Yeah. And so in terms of getting the nematodes, what were the predatory nematodes' favorite food? Oh my gosh, this was the first day, and it's six days later. I have notes. I wrote down notes. Their favorite food? Oh, I know. It's the bad guys. It's the root feeders, right? Right. It is the bad guys. Oh, good. I did remember that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, again, the class is a lot to remember. It's a lot. It's intense.
24:17 Thank God I took notes. Yeah, yeah. And also KNF support. But so the idea is with your soil, I think, you know, as we can, now that we have really good IMO, we'll make it into IMO 4. We only finished three in this class. But then we can top dress with that. We can bring in those and make the environment more, I want to say applicable, but it's not like more hospitable, is a better word, for these predatory nematodes. And then they'll have all the food they need to eat, which is all these root feeders. And then that will, again, like you're saying, bring it back into balance.
25:05 And maybe right now it's out of balance a little bit because of certain factors of the way the beds are, these things, but that mainly the predatory nematodes are not growing in large enough numbers to keep the root feeders in balance. and in terms of the nematodes you've also tried planting some plants to to keep them back what what was that and how effective was that i planted marigolds lots of them it made it beautiful but how effective i can't really say i mean i still have some nematodes so that did not bring
25:52 it into balance is what I would say, but I didn't really do an experiment like how close to the marigolds. Maybe there were no nematodes really close to the roots of that plant. I'm not sure. And it'd be cool to do a bit of soil analysis to pull some of that out, put it under the microscope, see the nematodes, especially if you pull the soil that's right where you pull up the roots and the roots are all gnarled up like that you know and we could see see those nematodes I mean it's it's it's obvious they're there yeah it is and so then you know back to nutrient cycle
26:37 you you mentioned something interesting to me the other day how's your arms getting tired my arms getting tired yeah it's okay she doesn't have a mic stand i do um um so you mentioned um so we were talking a little bit about um my dad's tomatoes do you want to go a little bit into that of of what we're kind of kind of contemplating here um sure uh correct me if i'm wrong but the first year that we grew tomatoes i say we it's mostly my husband but i'm there cheerleading him he put a fish head under each tomato plant one fish head probably about a foot down something
27:27 like that and we had incredible production three or four hundred pounds i mean just an amazing and beautiful tomatoes. Everything was fantastic. So, you know, the American way, more must be better. So this year, he decided to dig a trough and fill it with fish waste, a whole trough, and then plant the tomatoes on top of that. You know, we have a couple of rows in the greenhouse with a path in the center. Guess what? I think we got maybe eight tomatoes. I mean, it just was this green jungle. So bad. It was a great experiment.
28:12 But uh-oh, a little too much nitrogen. A little too much fuel, if you will. And, you know, I just think it was just so way out of whack, balance, that the plants were just, there was not going to be a tomato. It just wasn't, that wasn't the info it was getting at all. Yeah. So when we were talking about that, the nitrogen provided a bunch of this above ground growth, but what did we say was happening with the roots below? They weren't good. They weren't solid. They were looking for something but couldn't find it, if I remember correctly. Yeah.
28:52 Yeah, and they didn't have, you know, Steve was talking about this, like, they didn't have many connections with the soil biology. Right. And you remember what he was saying about the importance of those connections? Yeah, it's everything. I mean, if they are reaching out and there's nothing there for them, then they can't do their job. The roots can't do their job. That's what I understand. Yeah, and the roots don't make these mycelial connections, and then later in its growth, it's like, well, I need some phosphorus or some potassium, or, and Steve mentions, it needs maybe some zinc.
29:34 That's right. Right, these little micro-elements, and it's not able to get them, and so it just stays a green forest. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Because it's not getting what it needs. Once again, the balance. it's kind of like a like a spoiled child oh yeah that's what Drake was talking about a spoiled kid that had everything handed to them and then later they get in life and they don't have you know quality friends to trade with they don't have life skills they didn't make the connections right yeah they didn't develop that because they didn't have to and so you have to provide an environment
30:19 where the plant has to develop its network through its roots to be able to then take care of itself. Yeah. Yeah, so we're seeing that nutrient cycle in action, right? I mean, this is like, you know, so next year, you know, going at it, doing it again, you know, you know, maybe you can not only be the cheerleader, but also the cheer coach. Yes, I will be. Yeah, I will. We'll see how well that goes over. Keep track of all of it. And yeah.
31:06 But yeah, working together, you know, growing these produce, you know, it's pretty rewarding, right? Oh, it is. We have a whole freezer full of marinara and we make amazing salsas. And, you know, it's nice to have to give away. People really appreciate good tomatoes. And I mean, it's a great way to make friends. But stay tuned, everybody. I'll let you know one way or the other. But I really do think I know, I feel now that I have the knowledge to be successful. I'm looking forward to it. so let's uh let's talk a little bit more about you know other other major highlights for for this
31:48 class um well i mentioned a little bit in the beginning about having success with the imo and really seeing um the difference how it changed throughout the process um that was that was one of Um, gosh, there were so many. I mean, every day in review, um, one of the things Drake would ask us is, well, what are the three highlights from yesterday? And I was like, oh, only three. I mean, um, there were so many. Let's see. The nutritive cycle. That was huge for me. Um, in terms of, I feel that'll solve my, um, deficiency in my gardening.
32:34 I feel like that will take it up a notch. gosh what else the tasting you know we've kind of gone over it I'm trying to think the other things that we made oh you know what we did it was so cool we made a food out of longon and a food out of lime like a huge 5 gallon bucket oh my goddess it was so good the taste it's like unbelievably good. Just yummy, yummy. And we also, we had extra with the ginger when we were making the medicine. So we made the one half gallon jar, two thirds, but then we had some extra. So we just
33:19 made that into food as well. And I got to tell you, that will be the best stir fry sauce ever, ever. But that just so gingery and yummy with the sugar, of course. So you know, it's fun to, we had a lot of fun, you know, doing our experiments and we did different things, things that you've never done before Drake too. So I think that was fun for you too. Oh, the other thing that was really cool is one of our, we did two IML piles. And so when we did, this was a total experiment was taking some wood chips that had been,
33:52 had decomposed somewhat putting in, are you ready? Macadamia nut butter that was given to Drake. I mean, just amazing macadamia nut butter. And then not being sure if that was enough, we added a little bit of the fuel. Oh my goodness. It became a race car. I mean, that thing was so hot. It was so steaming. We had to turn it, turn it, turn it. It was a small pile too. But compared to the other one, yeah, it really heated up and it smelled so good. Still smells really good yeah so that was fun yeah yeah so you know i i i wanted to try something
34:33 new here and so um putting those uh you know so so basically we we used we used wood chips and mac nut waste plus then the you know the other soil you know the imo liquid solution into it that's right and one of the things i i was anticipating the wood chips to be a bit more of laggard in terms of heating up but because the wood chips were quite already old um you know and decomposed you know it's it's always an experiment trying new um new uh what do i call it like um substrate yeah yeah yeah yeah new new substrate material um and it was quite interesting to do a
35:16 side-by-side trial and see what was the differences you know kind of we use we the other one we used the mature horse feed that do more senior horse feed you know it's like standard what we're what we've been using last couple classes sometimes i also amend you know the dog food and and um and wood chips and sometimes the dog food is a bit laggy because it's almost hydrophobic and oily when you first get it you know i'm using pedigree only the best dog food right um and um And, you know, so each material has this different texture and just the side-by-side of doing those, such differences.
35:58 But then also, you know, the smells coming out, the clear, certain biological activity. It seems like both are going to be just, you know, worked, right? I would say so. Yeah, the other one was hotter. Oh, sorry. The other one was hotter and we had to turn it more frequently and sometimes even twice at a time to really get the temperature down. But I think, I mean, I know both of them worked really well. And, you know, so that's interesting.
36:33 I wonder what's the difference when you go to apply it into your, you know, on your farm or the two different types of, are the microorganisms that much different? because of the substrate and all of that? Well, that's actually an interesting question. And we're propagating this indigenous biology, and the seed IMO that we put in there, that collection we've had that was preserved in sugar, would predominantly grow out and kind of outcompete these other ones. Clearly in the decomposed wood chips, we're already getting an additional biology.
37:14 But once the temperature rises, once those microbes go to work, how many of those become food for the biology we're growing? How many of them propagate throughout the pile? How many of those become diversity and interbreed with our new set? This is why we know very little about soil biology. Because the amount of variables, the amount of things, the amount of, if I measure it at this point, it's probably different 10 minutes from now. It's definitely different an hour. It's definitely different after the week. And for us, it's one week. But I reiterated it to you guys,
37:57 for the microbes, it's 10,000 years. If you take our size in one week and you scale our size down to the size of the microbe, like one micrometer, that then becomes 10,000 years because space and time are interrelated. So as you scale down, time becomes larger. As you get bigger, time gets smaller. And so when we scale down, it's 10,000 years. So imagine you're trying to measure something over 10,000 years. It's like for us, it's just a week. But 10,000 years, that means if you take a measurement, what, every minute or something,
38:33 I'm not sure how many, you know, what is seven times whatever it is, you know. but it's like you're measuring every hundred years or something like and it is just um so so the science on this to get this like you know so you ask what is the difference between these the biology i see and that's that it's like man it like so instead of trying to be super precise in the science bit of it we're more trying to do these macro measurements of known goodness so I talked about you know visual observations so what are we looking for in the pile what are we looking for in the pile
39:18 what you say visually yeah I mean at one point you saw the pile sort of change color oh yeah it got a little bit of gray in one part it just is one little area and Drake said possibly that one area got a little hot and um but it was for me it was more a smell thing and it smelled really good both of them smelled really good all throughout more than visually oh it also really oh that's what it is it's like became this really fine almost sand a little bit bigger than sand but just really fine um it got easier and easier to uh turn the pile to as it got drier yeah um
40:04 And then that one morning we went to turn it, there was also like a layer at the bottom. Oh, that's right. That looked different, right? Yeah. And that's where it was really hot, at the bottom. You know, that's the warmest part. So, yeah. And that was also kind of that grayish color. Yep. And my suspicion on that is it's a ton of actinomycines, and those had overheated just a fair amount. Right. So what was the solution? Turn it. Turn it. And then we also kind of moved it off that spot a little bit. We got it away from that spot. Just let those guys be by themselves. Sorry. Party over.
40:42 And turn it. Turn it. Turn it. Turn it. So we did. And then, you know, again, monitor the temperature. And my ultimate suspicion on why there was that one gray spot, I just tell you, I think the cat used it as a litter box. Oh, great. That's why we use a shovel, huh? Does it make sense? right there because that was that one spot that overheated. You know what? It's totally possible. It's right on the edge. And added that extra moisture and that's why it overheated. That's why the rest of the pile was totally fine but that one spot was off. I'm not going to tell Steve that yet.
41:20 He can watch the office hours and find out about this. Sure. It's possible. In fact, I was wondering why they don't use it as a litter box. They do when you're not looking. but when it's hot they're skeptical of it but as it starts to cool down which it was starting to cool down guess what that was like oh that is the chief spot plus it was also raining that night and the cat's like you know what this spot looks pretty good this will work oh my gosh we got two barn cats we got Stealth Ninja and Karen which is kill a rat every night it's just an acronym name for her and they're great cats
41:59 they kept all the mice away I didn't see a single mouse, no mouse activity. Usually, prior to the cats, I'd go up there to turn the pile. I'd pull the cover off, and there'd be four or five little mice there saunaing, also adding moisture to the pile. But no mice this time. It's a little more scientific now. It's your trade-offs, right? Steve keeps saying everything has an opportunity cost. In this case, we got that one. And so you also, you know, I was talking about science for the IMOs here. Also the smell.
42:35 Can you describe the difference between the mac nut pile and the horse food substrate pile? Well, I'll tell you what your wife said, Suze, when she was up there. She came up for a visit. Oops. She came up for a visit. And we were turning, actually, when she came up. And she goes, oh my God, it smells like the best nut loaf. That's what she said about the macadamia nut one. And the other one, I don't know how to describe, you know, smell so much. I just smell sweet, like a bakery. I mean, that's what I would say. It smells like a bakery. Early stages for sure.
43:15 And now do you notice it's sort of kind of changing? Oh yeah, it's not as sweet. It doesn't even smell as much is what I would say. and and i would relate that directly to as the pile starts to dry out the metabolic activity is slowing hence hence the temperature is dropping and the smell is now sort of getting a little bit more foresty definitely more foresty in fact didn't even use that word i think i did you said it smelled more foresty when i turned it the other day yesterday um i did it this morning
43:51 again at six and um you know it's fine it's right at 120 118 turned it and um got it down to 95 i'm always like yes and i tell you it's good workout too that big pile um that snow shovel you know we don't have snow in hawaii but we have imos you can build your um snow shoveling muscles yeah But yeah, it smells good. And were you surprised, sometimes we're up there at the barn, so we would flip it, maybe stack it a little bit higher while we were there. Were you surprised how quickly the temperature rose at some points? You mean when I went back up? Or what do you mean? No, no.
44:33 Like we're up there and then all of a sudden, like, you know, we put the temperature in. It's like, okay, we got it down to 100, you know, 110. And then all of a sudden we're leaving. It's 120. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's cooking. It was cooking in the beginning. And so sometimes we had to turn it twice. While we were up there. Or even just twice in one session, right? Yep, yep. Because each time we're lowering the pile about 10 degrees when we're turning it, we're also getting that air in there, which helps keep it good. Yeah, we also left it uncovered while we were up there.
45:05 And we were doing, you know, we were up there for three or four hours at a pop, making all kinds of stuff, having our fun up there. And, yeah, it changed, for sure. You just watch it right there, changing. Cool. And then, you know, last night we kind of had a good thing happen. Can you talk a little bit about that? I mean, you organized it. Well, yeah, it was so precious. I don't know how many of you have had the really amazing opportunity to meet Dr. Park. But I said to Drake, you know, hey, that was a few weeks ago.
45:43 I said, gosh, what if we invite him for our dinner, you know, our last night dinner kind of thing? And he said, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we called Dr. Park and he showed up last night. And he's just so amazing. He just exudes love. And he's so, I will say, proud of Drake. So because Drake's doing, you know, Dr. Park was the first person to take Drake to Korea. He arranged the trip. And then did he go every single time you were there pretty much? Every time he went to Korea? I mean, he was the translator. Yeah, except for my last trip in 2019, or 2018, 2019,
46:26 when we went to Mujun and we studied with Master Li. But every other trip, Dr. Park was there. And, you know, Dr. Park is a pediatrician. He's not a farmer. his whole thing was seeing the kids, sick kids the kids are sick, why are the kids sick? it's because of what they're eating they're not eating nutritious food, they're eating an apple that doesn't have any nutrition or worse yet and so he got on the real passion of wanting to make a difference in the quality of our food and he saw it in Korea and then was, you know, knew Master Cho and was able to take many groups to Korea.
47:14 And many people were exposed to this knowledge. And Drake was able to make amazing videos, like hundreds of them, so many videos, just precious knowledge and to be able to see how it's done in Korea, first class in Korea, and bring that back with him. and just really inspired Drake to be who he is today and have him have the passion of wanting to teach. And one of the things that Drake talked about yesterday, segueing a little bit, was the exponential theory of where natural farming is now. You know, natural farming is taking off. It's such a gradual takeoff.
47:54 And that what will happen, we know will happen, is at some point it's just going to shift and it's going to click and here goes natural farming, you know, because it's the solution, it's the answer. And that also gives all of us hope. We just keep practicing, we keep telling people, we teach as much as we can, and it's a way to save our world, I feel for sure, save our oceans and our land. So Dr. Park is just, what a sweetheart, gosh. Yeah, I mean, it's nice he was here because he's really the reason that I even know about natural farming. I mean, it was,
48:38 it was occurring in Korea, right? Since the sixties, 19, 1967, I think was when, uh, Master Cho got, you know, established and did his things and learned from Japan and started getting that established in Korea. Um, but the whole reason Hawaii knows the whole reason I would say the west knows about this and and there there may have been other people and other things but i think pretty much everyone even you guys here and tuned in can trace your lineage directly through dr park yeah and he's just this humble caring loving dude um and you know and he has
49:23 like like i try to like one of the things that you know when i see him because you know as you get old he's quite elderly at this point i think he's probably 80 something i don't know i didn't ask him i think he's close to 90. okay yeah he's old he's old yeah um but but um you know is is that sometimes i feel i feel like sometimes you don't he you don't know your impact you don't know um you know like you're just trying to rest every moment everything you know and i just try to reiterate to him like dr park man i don't know where i'd be without you you know and and you
49:59 know how many thousands of people have you taught how many you know hundreds of lives millions of lives have you touched you know trillions of lives if you count all the microbes right um have you have you made an impact and made made life better and not only being a um a pediatrician in Hilo and one of the few people that would see people that were poor, that were on welfare, like he was the only doctor, the only pediatrician that would see these people because everyone else was like, they wanted the insurance money from this. And Dr. Park last night,
50:33 he almost cried when he was talking about how he would see the poorest patients because he was poor. And if you, you know, eventually here we'll, we're putting together a documentary through the Pure K&F Foundation, but we'll release his story. But, I mean, he basically, you know, the tragedy of the Korean War and the famine that he experienced and the fact that he orphaned himself to, to, to, you know, just, and you see him tear up as he talks about this, that he knows true poverty, true war, you know, the tragedies. And, and that, you know, so, so I
51:14 always try to tell him, man, look, man, you know, thank God you survived through everything. Thank God you're still here. And thank God for that, you know, I somehow, for this moment in life, you made just such a pivotal impact in my life. And then I was reflecting after, you know, with, with you guys on the couches after. I was just like, look, I got to live up to his legacy. When you meet a man like that and you see what he did, it's like, because we asked the question, it's like, okay, you've taught natural farming to thousands of people, Dr. Park.
51:49 How many of them do you think are still doing natural farming? He was like, I don't know. But if you can reach, when he gave that to me, I saw what he was giving. I saw what he was putting out there and I was like, you know, it's not just some other thing that I'm going to put in, put out, you know, learn and then file on my shelf and put away. Like, this is my life's mission. Like I saw the importance of this. I see the drive. I see the thing. And it's like, you know, how many people come learn? And then it's like, bro, teach, go out, do.
52:27 this is the most important thing for yourself for everyone you know and and and do it you know do it for yourself do for god do it for dr park you know if you meet that man you'd be like wow like it's it's like a it's like a you know a flame under you to like get get out there teach spread do it help help the food get better help families get better you know Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And for me, I just, you know, when seeing him, seeing his wife, you know, just how happy they are. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Being that, that, the life of service like that, when I see Dr. Park, sure, he's made money, he's a doctor,
53:10 he did a lot of, you know, like, you know, it's not like he had to put himself into abject poverty to make a difference by being of service. Mm-hmm. But every moment of that man's life, he's in service. Mm-hmm. It still is. Still is. Still is. So he just sold his land in Kaivihi, 10 acres, and bought six acres out Poonasai in the Curtis Town area so that he could give the land to his pastor so his pastor could farm the land and live there so he could grow farm so he can send his kids to college. talk about somebody who's like selfless like here's an investment i'm gonna sell this one
53:58 buy this one give it to my pastor so he can farm so he can help his children like who does that yeah yeah it just is so selfless yeah right yeah definitely an inspiration for everybody and his IMO too his IMO machine when he brought that he made that so people could you know next best thing was great no and he tries so hard not what is what is the IMO machine doing today it's sitting someplace rotting because we couldn't get a boiler because of regulations you know it's like but he meant he just tries and tries
54:41 and tries and tries and tries and tries and there's so many hurdles but he just keeps going you know doesn't give up yeah so i want to thank you for bringing him last night you know having that having the four thoughts and bring him yeah well let's do it again i mean he loved coming to your class in january let's invite him yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah well yeah you know he's old you know you know he's walking him down to his car holding his hand you know so he's you know because it's kind of dark here and even though we put in good lighting um and then small small update on master
55:17 cho i got to talk with dr park about master cho he said that basically right now mrs cho is kind of blocking all communication master cho is in a uh old people's home retirement home i don't know i want to say the correct word for that but basically you know living assisted living kind a home um ju young still unaccounted for um young song apparently working with some marijuana farmers um and his other daughter master cho's other daughter uh you know not in communication not help you know and so i i you know just hope the best for master cho uh you know even dr park
56:00 hasn't been able to contact him and so you know kind of unknowns on a lot of things uh dr park was obviously a little concerned um but um you know i just wish the best for all this this lineage you know uh i kind of feel this this uh you know the torch is definitely passing as these old folks go out and um and my goal is to have them be happy with how um you know and we us us all of us are carrying forward with this mission um because they're you know they don't have that capability anymore and it's now it's on us and and you know who's who's going to be the next one to rise up to
56:51 be you know the next master cho the next dr park uh you know and and and keep this alive and you know it's it's obviously you know one of us uh either that or it dies you know and um going through doing that it's uh it's it's quite a it's it's it's a it's a joyous thing and then it's also like service and then it's also one of the most rewarding through just giving up any other type of idea of ego gratification type of reward and more of like a just got to do the right thing. And there's ego gratification. I mean, I look at last night,
57:36 Susan, I went, walked down to the driveway to open the gate for Dr. Park to make it easier for him. And I looked over at Susan. I said, I hope we're old like that one day. happy couple and that some young person invites me to come to to to their thing to their dinner yeah and i'm like you know and someone else is carrying this at that point and that you know we're just like old happy telling some stories you know learning how learning how dr park and mrs park met each other you know dr park's stomach exploded and she mrs park was his was his nurse
58:18 and he was like he asked the other nurse hey is she single she was like yeah you guys want to meet up he was like yeah and she was like she looked at him and she had just such compassion because his stomach just exploded. They had just survived through the Korean War. And they had a similar interest to want to come to America and make a living. And they did. And they moved to Hilo. And they have made, Dr. Park was telling me last night, he'll walk into the Walmart because he worked with a lot of lower income people. So Walmart, you know, you connect the dots yourself.
59:00 But everyone in Walmart's like, Dr. Park, Dr. Park. Everyone recognizes him. Everyone knows. And what a more rewarding thing to be an elderly person, be cruising through life, and have those recognitions and love. Yeah. He has a true legacy. You know. He really made a difference. Still making a difference. And that's why I feel I've got to make my own difference. I have this knowledge. I got to do something with it. I do. I have to. And you are. And also, I always tell folks that you are the most accomplished yogi on this island that's not in hiding.
59:49 That's not in hiding. There may be someone in a cave somewhere that knows more than you, but you're the only person that's available. You know, that's out, that's sharing, that's doing, that's my passion. Yeah, that's living this truth, living this and sharing. And, you know, isn't it rewarding? Oh, yes, because really, you know, whatever your purpose is in life, when you find that and throw yourself at it and do your best to, I'm not going to say I'm a master because I'm not, I still have so, so far to go, but I've spent 25 years studying it and practicing it.
1:00:37 Then when you can share that with other people, as much as you've studied natural farming, it becomes a part of you. It's not just a book. It's not something you've read. It's who you are. And when you can transmit that to other people, it can really change lives for the better. And when you do that, you feel like you made a difference also in the world. And it's incredibly rewarding. Very, very rewarding. Yeah. So I love what I do. And it's 100% in line with natural forming. Natural forming is 100% in line with yoga. Balance. Hello, that's what yoga is.
1:01:19 You know, so, yeah, I feel really lucky to have these two practices in my life. And so, thank you for being my teacher. Thank you so much. And up here, just, you know, we got some comments here just, you know, about to wrap things up. But I just read a couple of these because I did see them come in as we were talking. And sorry I ignored all the rest of the questions that did come in. But we'll maybe get to them. There's one about, you know, we'll answer this one quickly. But, you know, how do you do natural farming if you're diabetic? What would you say?
1:02:03 You know, you mean to take some of the solutions have so much sugar in them. Oh, and you're wanting to take them as a person. I mean, natural farming, you think of as you're doing it for plants. Whoops. You think you're doing it for plants. So if you're going to take it, my personal opinion is that it's your intention. It's your intention behind it. If you think it's medicine, we know it's medicine. If that's truly what you're after is the benefits of that solution, the sugar is incidental. That's my opinion.
1:02:42 And probably just dilute it more, right? So you're still getting those, you know, like if you're going to do the food or the fuel or any of these things that have extreme health benefits when you consume them as a person, just dilute them more so that you're not making your, you know, causing issue, you know, because obviously there is some sugar, but there's sugar in every food you eat. But, you know, yeah, besides like Diet Coke, which then that has its own side effects, right? Yeah.
1:03:12 But the other thing is if you do protein with it, whenever you have a sugar type of thing, if you have some protein with it, it won't spike your blood sugar as much. That's something I didn't know. So maybe include fish amino acid in every one you're going to do. Put a little fuel in there with all the foods. Yeah. Maybe that super available amino acids proteins may counteract this. You may be on to something that is beyond, you know, why, you know, if you truly mix these solutions up the way they're recommended, that now you're not causing diabetes in a person or the plants.
1:03:48 And we don't often think of our plants having diabetes, but surely they could. Right? Yeah. Cool. That's good. And then here, just a few things. You know, it's saying, hello, Drake's mom. I'm a firm believer. And the creator sends a few people here to point the rest of us in the right direction. You gave birth to one of those few. Oh, you're going to make me cry. Oh, it's, you know, I can tell you, Drake used to do a monthly natural farming meeting. And I would go to a lot of them because I was interested in natural farming. I was doing it a little bit.
1:04:25 and very often people would come up to me, particularly gentlemen would come up to me, and they'd say, wow, how did you raise such a fine young man? And I would say, I let him be who he is. That's what I would say. I'd let him be who he is. And yes, I do feel like, thank you, Drake. I mean, I'm really, really proud to have him as my son. I'm proud to have him as a leader in natural farming and really, really appreciate everything you're doing for the world. Yeah. Make me cry. Well, no, I mean, yeah. It's a team effort, let me tell you.
1:05:12 And also Jonathan is saying, Bert has soothing vocals. Levels are good. Oh, good. Got a good radio voice, Mom. Well, actually, I've been asked to make commercials. I'm not kidding. that's from years of teaching yoga and learning how to well if you teach a good class and you want people to come back you can't yell at them gotta be soothing yeah you gotta be soothing yes you will come back to the class the donation button's right there yeah okay and then coming through oh we got William in the house from Ghana
1:05:52 check this out we're making a worldwide impact right now how cool is that um yes the thoughts on kna for diabetics okay uh mitchell's saying what's up to you um and then uh let's see got marty up in uh illinois what's growing on we got we covered that just going through here um you know and then and then marty here was saying um so cool your mom's taking the class role reversal child teaching the parent love how excited mom is about the class then planning to teach for next week can you share the new calf with the mom so oh yeah oh i have a great video
1:06:31 we can share right after birth we'll share that next week yeah hey cool and um and we got we got senegal in the house and cheryl what's up hi cheryl long time no see come back and visit yeah so and then Lone Star LARF yeah Mama Drake so thanks you know we're resuming class again at 10.30 here it's 10.07 so you know getting up oh and Mitchell's sitting there with his little girl so he's having some family time too you know generational natural farming it's always cool when you can share something multi-generational
1:07:15 and just one one last little closing thing that i found is i found that the korean natural farming is probably one of the most multi-generational unifying things that i've seen you know we go to when when my mom mentioned that the natural farming meeting and it's like you know i was you know when i was doing that i was like in my 20s um and early 30s you know uh getting old now but then there's guys like Dr. Park there that were in their 70s and then there's people in their 50s 40s 30s sometimes the people would bring infants sometimes there were young children you
1:07:55 know it was like what other thing do you go to where it's so multi-generational so many people coming together so unifying so you know just just just beautiful building family building relationships and and that was actually the one i said that's the final thing but one other thing that for me was one of the biggest highlights of this class is the relationships that are built here you know even you know i know my mom since birth pretty much maybe maybe prior to birth i'm not sure i don't really remember that but um but i'm sure she does um and but just even this like you
1:08:38 I feel like our relationship even more rooted. My relationship with Steve, even more rooted. We've gotten into some heady conversations. So next week maybe I'll drop some highlights of what I talk with Steve because we got deep into some stuff and mind-blowing. But just natural farming, like you said, is about forging these relationships. Relationship with the earth, relationship with plants, relationship with this you know just so many and this here this class just farming that so i you know again i just i just you know want to reiterate to you just i'm so thankful that you're here that
1:09:20 receptive to this that you took this learned so well um that it made a difference in your life that um you know it's going to continue that now you got this teaching opportunity now you can share you know they just so many benefits out of this i just i just can't say enough and you've always been a huge supporter of this here um you know if you notice sometimes you'll see bird in the chat super chatting throwing throwing you know support this way monetarily just you know just loving natural farming and i just i just can't you know i mean i guess i can thank you enough but but it's
1:09:59 never enough of what I can physically say. So I just, you know, yeah, I love you, mom. I love you. So I'm going to go over to this here, the end screen here. And let's make a little heart. Put it up high so people can see. Is this heart sufficient? You guys can see this heart. Does it look like a heart? Let's make it look like a heart. more uh yeah okay so this is our heart put your head in there okay and then i'm gonna click goodbye so i'll see you next week aloha yeah