Desert IMO Collection, Pasture Regeneration, FPJ Sugar Ratios
Drake opens with a mastitis remedy for his new milk cow: fermented feed with garlic, ginger, and honey, plus a hand-built milking stanchion while he waits on a milking machine. He is also grazing his Wagyu cows straight on the lawn and shares drone footage comparing his recovering pasture, dosed with fish and microbe piles, against a neighbor's overgrazed, pig-trampled, muddy pasture. Student Ben sends in a photo of clean IMO collected right in his dry Phoenix, Arizona backyard.
Drake describes pressing his own cane juice and making crystallized sugar by heating, skimming foam, and stirring as it cools, preferring yellow cane over purple. He says once sugar is refined there is no reliable home test for its source, though Demerara and jaggery keep more raw character. Master Cho is reported as sharp in mind but weakening in body while his son Young Song tours the mainland teaching JADAM, which Drake sums up as leaf matter rotting in a bucket plus a cheap pesticide of soap, sulfur, and boiled herbs.
On microgreens, Drake tells George to include lactobacillus in his trial since it holds back mold and is likely the biggest factor, more than the leaf solution itself. He confirms leftover lemon KNF food can ferment into vinegar once its brix hits eight to ten percent. Walking through Master Cho's slideshow, Drake explains fermented plant juice (KNF food) is best collected at the growing tips just before sunrise, ideally near Lāʻau Kūkahi, two days after full moon, and diluted about one to five hundred when applied.
On sugar ratios for KNF food, Drake says use less sugar up front for the osmotic extraction, then add more afterward to supersaturate and preserve the ferment. He closes with a viewer note that cobalt in soil may come mostly from insect urine and frass, and another viewer's trial showing IMO4 combined with JMS outperforms either one used alone.
Questions answered
- 6:33 How to treat mastitis in a milking cow? — Ferment her feed and mix in garlic, ginger, and honey while hand-milking until the milking machine arrives.
- 9:21 Can you collect IMOs in a desert climate like Arizona? — Yes, student Ben collected beautiful IMO right in his dry Phoenix backyard using a round basket trap.
- 13:18 What does rotational grazing and pasture regeneration look like from the air? — Drone footage showed Drake's rested pasture greening up while his neighbor's overgrazed, pig-trampled pasture turned to mud.
- 27:11 How do you make crystallized sugar from cane juice? — Heat the pressed cane juice, skim the foam, then keep stirring as it cools until it crystallizes; yellow cane works better than purple.
- 29:06 Can you tell cane sugar apart from other sugars at home? — Not once it's refined to white sucrose, there's no reliable home test, though Demerara and jaggery keep more raw character.
- 32:00 How is Master Cho doing? — Sharp mind, weakening body, his son Young Song is touring the US teaching JADAM while Master Cho stays in Korea.
- 35:00 What is JADAM in a nutshell? — Mostly rotting leaf matter in a bucket for cheap inputs, plus his famous pesticide of soap, sulfur, and boiled herbs.
- 37:47 Any advice on comparing KNF solutions on microgreens? — Include lactobacillus in the trial since it keeps mold down and is likely the biggest differentiator, not just the leaf solution.
- 38:56 Can leftover lemon KNF food be turned into vinegar? — Yes, once the brix is around eight to ten percent, it will ferment into vinegar like anything else given water and time.
- 41:54 Do salt and sand matter when fermenting seaweed into KNF food? — Not much for this kelp-type seaweed, and the salt from pressing it doesn't seem to matter either.
- 44:20 When is the best time to collect plant material for fermented plant juice? — Snap the growing tips just before sunrise, since growth hormones concentrate there overnight and haven't retreated yet.
- 46:50 What is the best moon phase to harvest for KNF food? — Lāʻau Kūkahi, two days after full moon, when sun and moon are both up and plants ooze the most sap.
- 52:33 How much sugar should you use when making fermented plant juice? — Use less sugar up front, just enough for osmotic extraction, then add more sugar afterward to supersaturate and preserve it.
- 1:03:33 Where do cobalt levels in soil come from? — A paper suggests cobalt comes mostly from insect urine and frass, relevant since B12 is a weak spot in vegan diets.
- 1:04:34 What happens when you combine IMO4 and JMS on a field? — One viewer found areas treated with both IMO4 and JMS far outperforming areas that got only one or the other.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 Count down
- 1:04 Intro and welcome
- 2:10 I Ching reading: return to the well of goodness
- 6:33 Mastitis remedy; milking stanchion
- 7:55 Using cows to mow the lawn
- 9:21 Desert IMO collection in Arizona
- 13:18 Drone footage of pasture regeneration
- 25:39 Integrated animal systems; rotational grazing
- 27:11 Making crystallized sugar for KNF solutions
- 29:06 Telling cane sugar from other sugars at home
- 32:00 Master Cho report
- 35:00 JADAM in a nutshell
- 37:47 Microgreens solutions comparison
- 38:56 Making vinegar from lemon KNF food
- 40:35 Master Cho's slideshow: KNF food, plants and seaweed
- 44:20 Master Cho's slideshow: KNF food, when to collect
- 46:50 KNF moon calendar for planting
- 52:33 Master Cho's slideshow: KNF food, how to make and use
- 1:03:33 Cobalt levels from insect urine and frass
- 1:04:34 Combining IMO4 and KNF food (JMS)
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
1:30 hey aloha good morning uh good day good wherever you are out in the world um oh man my mustache yeah welcome uh global knf worldwide uh february 5th 2023 and welcome to Korean Natural Farming Office Hours. So give me a sec here and I'm going to pull things up. Sorry, it's a little bit late here today, but let's see here. So let's start off today with a little bit of higher wisdom here. And so today is the well.
2:19 return to the well of goodness. No community can survive without a dependable source of pure water. In a similar way, human beings cannot survive without a reliable source of spiritual nourishment. In fact, we need two wells. An external source of guidance, such as the I Ching, and an internal source of guidance, which must be our own good character. This hexagram comes to encourage you to concentrate on developing and purifying and utilizing your two wells. Notice the name of the hexagram, Qing, the well.
3:07 The I Ching has survived in countless civilizations for thousands of years for a simple reason. It is an inexhaustible source of spiritual nourishment. It provides us with the fundamental building blocks of a successful life. If you approach it sincerely, without mistrust or frivolity, it will guide you through every difficult hour with unimpeachable wisdom. If you muddy the well, however, by doubting the I Ching, or replacing your ego desires above the counsel it gives you, you will impede your own progress. The purest of external wells, the I Ching, is also an invaluable aid in developing and
3:54 cleansing our internal well of your own good character. It will, if you are sincere, reveal to you the fundamental issues of your life, and it will instill the values necessary to successfully negotiate those issues. The hexagram Ching comes to encourage you not to muddy the well of your own good character in any way now. In relating to others, look beyond any external faults of muddiness and acknowledge that a clear well exists inside them somewhere. No person is without this. And by speaking to it, You strengthen it.
4:39 And if you will follow these counsels, you will meet with true and lasting success in life. So, awesome. Hang on. I'm going to open this curtain. A little less dark on me, I think. Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. Hey. Hey. oh good to see you guys coming in from all over long island new york um three degrees now it's 49 halfway through winter and dreaming of spring yeah it's spring here man um stone mason how's it cecily what's up in western australia um
5:26 oh man negative 19 degrees and it's nice here man it's like 85 something like that and um germany's in the house and uh george is here and george um just i just got your email here and because i was late over here to not get things set up um i might be able to get into um some sort of um some sort of thing here but i because i can't get into it right now um it's a little bit challenging uh i can't i can't like live bring this up so anyway um and uh hello from florida horace hey man you should check out eyewitness he's down
6:16 there somewhere. And, um, and your pipes froze some. Oh yeah. And the beard is looking pretty sweet, huh? Yeah. It's just doing its thing naturally. Haven't done anything for it for years. Um, and, um, good question coming from stonemason. How's my new milk cow? um she's pretty sweet we we've been dealing with a um a mastitis issue um so we've been fermenting her feed also giving her um like garlic ginger sort of like ohn um type of mix as well as honey into her feed and dealing with that um and then also it's like it's gnarly to
7:02 have the, um, the, um, yeah, we're milking her by hand right now. So I'm trying to, I'm ordered a milk machine and it's on its way. Um, and Daniel's here tuning in while he pours off some fermented plant juice. I think he's maybe over at my mom's house doing that. Um, and yeah. So anyway, I ended up, um, building, building this stanchion for my cow. You can see my cow on the back and I built that little stanchion there. So it's just a little bit easier to, um, to get her in there and to, to milk her. Um, she's really nice and tame though. She's been milked before,
7:50 so it's not that hard. And then other, um, other kind of funny thing is that, um, here at the farm, we have a bunch of really nice yards. My dad, my dad likes to mow and keeps, keeps a really nice yard going. Um, but he's out skiing, uh, in, in Utah, I think. And so I've just taken the cows, my other two, these are my, um, Wagyu beef cows, and I'm letting them go out and eat the, um, the yard grass. And so, because I now have five cows, which is more, um, pasture than I can do. Um, I'm, I'm grazing these cows just straight up on
8:41 the yard and they're eating the short mowed grass and they, they really like it. They've, They've been just hammering through it and they do a really good job, almost better than a mower, except for they kind of dent the lawn and then they leave poop everywhere. But the poop is then easily able to be cleaned up and then put into garden beds, turned into IMO5 and put into all those kind of things for natural farming. So it's kind of nice to have them actually around the house here. and then let's see here other good news that happened this past week um
9:25 ben who is here for the training in january um just sent me this photo and he's back in arizona and check out that imo collection so you know for all the people that are out in the desert and having trouble getting IMOs and in arid climates. This just shows that, you know, Ben took the time, came out here, learned with me directly and look at his success. I mean, not only did he get a round basket that he found someplace, you know, to get out there and to do that, but he also was able to collect just like beautiful IMO in the desert. And then he put it,
10:14 and this was right in his backyard. So, you know, when you think, oh, you got to go someplace really nice and find it, he was able to, let me see if it focuses right on that. Will it? Yes, no, but it just says backyard IMO on his collection jars there. Um, so, so he was able to, to do that and, um, get those right, right in his yard. I don't know. Does it show his yard? yeah he has he has a few nice um trees and things in his yard and um so just just goes to show you know um if you have good training you could know how good confidence then you can collect IMOs in
11:00 the desert and phoenix and no problem um would be nice to kind of talk to him to see you know which part of the methodologies he used to do this, but it just shows that, you know, success is right there. And I don't know if there were any colors inside. He didn't send me an inside photo, but just from looking at the outside, it just looks like beautiful mycelia. And I would imagine in the desert, it's a little bit easier to not get as much, you know, other colors and things because you're so dry and right there and just, you know, you get the microbes and they go right
11:42 into your rice and you have this amazing, um, thing happen. So, um, it's suggesting to me. Okay. So, um, oh man, I wish I could fire that up. In fact, um, and then there was one other thing I wanted to share with you but I didn't like I said I just got here a little a little late today I've been was kind of sick the other day I'm not sure exactly what happened to me it wasn't like a regular sickness was more like fatigue exhaustion type of thing that happened and uh let me see here if this I can swap this SD card in I did want to show you a little bit of
12:28 the drone shots that I've been doing here as I've been getting my pastures better. And my camera doesn't like that, but that's okay. So let me see here. I'll fire this up and then if I can find here little last couple drone shots here and I'll fire these up on the other screen let's see here move this over here and then go share the screen
13:14 um so so this is the farm drone going here let's see i'm gonna put the playback speed to fast so it's gonna go a little faster than i recorded it just so you can see um but here you know my farm the bananas this is my house here getting more sugar cane in, put a new garage, got my cows grazing the lawn there. Um, all the bananas, the IMOs growing on the roof. Um, and the pasture over here, been grazing this. Uh, I got my new, I think, right. Is that, that might be my cow right there. Um, Daryl and then her,
14:01 her new son EO out there, but they've been, they've been hammering this pasture. So I need to go out here and start treating this pasture here because I basically just let them tear it down. And then this pasture here, I did do a whole bunch of treatment on. So I just want to pause it right here and see if you can see the difference between my pasture here where I've been resting it and my cows did escape the other day out of the electric fence over on this, the left side of the screen. Um, and they walk through here so you can see their trails a little bit, but if you look and
14:36 you see my neighbors up here where he is not keeping the pigs out and then he's also over grazing it. And do you see how the mud starting to develop in his, um, land? There's just the dirt and mud. Um, and then right down here, the orchard, I just, I just ran the cows in there. um so that was just that's just kind of a drone little picture from kind of the back my backyard there um and then let's see here uh if i go up oh it's not gonna hang on let me go up here oh yeah okay hang on oh that's why okay i'm gonna stop that one
15:19 And then I want to put this one over here. Um, and this is, um, the banana plantings and all this up at my, up at my barn. So I'll play this on here. Um, so this is cruising around. And again, just if you can see the pastures, like the difference, my neighbor's pasture, um when i um this this neighbor the neighbor that lives here now moved in about two years ago or so or it was it was actually just before just after 2020 in 2020 they moved in so two two two years ago essentially um and my prior neighbor had been doing rotational grazing had all this paddocked
16:06 off and he had done an amazing work to bring this whole patch pasture back to life and my pasture i would just let my cows, two cows, just kind of graze wherever they wanted. And they had kind of overgrazed and brought in a bunch of this broom grass just as they had overgrazed the grass. But to see the difference in the flip-flop where my pasture got richer and his got poorer because of poor practices and then also not fencing the pigs out. And look at just the amount of dirt and and mud and everything up there. It's just, it's kind of incredible for me to see.
16:42 And then down here where I've completely rested like this area here, um, this is where I need to get the cows into there to graze a little bit. Um, and, um, you know, knock, knock that grass down a little, little bit. Um, but here's here, I'll just let this thing play. Here's the barn. um the bananas all doing pretty well um you know um the bananas in the back just kicking butt here um you know the fish the IMOs everything really helping um flying around here and then just you know kind of the differences in these two pastures of like where I'm bringing mine back to life and
17:23 all of these little um piles you see out here I don't I don't know if you can actually see them but these are the fish and microbe piles that we've been dropping out here. So I'm just trying to revitalize the land by putting microbes and fish. But yeah, you just look at the difference between these two pastures of just, man, I can't, I can't believe this stark difference of, of what's happened, you know? And so just trying to document this. And then I just built this little, um, stanchion here over the holidays christmas time uh built this new little shed to get water here
18:02 so i can run this pasture rotational grazing with water access and then here's my dad's um taro and all his trees and everything flowering nice over here then all this pipe at the bottom is going to be my new electric system um coming in so i got a lot of work to do on that um but just cruising over the farm kind of looking at the two pastures looking at the difference between these of just you know bringing them back to life doing my best to to make it all happen let's see let me see if it's gonna go maybe let me get a little faster faster
18:46 um just like all youtube everything video faster consume consume oh and there's there's my two cows and then here's my neighbors uh planting planting these two and it's just like um you know if you don't if you're not educated in agriculture you just plant trees in a field and expect them to grow and i have no idea how people expect that to happen like why would your tree want to reach out into this dead grass. Um, I don't know anyway, but, um, just watching his trees kind of die, um, as he's planted these about a year ago and none of them have grown. They've all lost their
19:24 leaves. They're dying. But my two cows, they're brand new little, um, bull. It's going to be a steer here pretty soon. And I just had to mow this field down. It was tall elephant grass like this, but as I mowed it down, uh, now it'll regrow and these cows can graze that area as the regrowth comes up. So if your grass is too tall like this, if you mow it down and then I put IMOs and sprayed IMO tea out here, sprayed it all up, um, that will help to, um, get it nice. But, and then this is my other guy's pasture, but see the difference, like for some reason that looks better. I don't know
20:02 But anyway, but I'm kind of flying over the farm here a little bit, seeing what's going on. But I think, from my opinion, and I think things are looking better. You know, microbes, everything doing its thing. But really, you know, you can see the cows have brought them into this. This is my orchard. It was tall grass. And in a few days, they were able to just like mow this down. And so I've been really getting into the, you know, the animals and raising them, you know, the rotational grazing and getting that together. Put in a new garage right here, which is good.
20:48 It's going to keep my vehicle from rotting away. And all my sugar cane field right here, making sugar. And the river down there where I'm going to put the hydroelectricity. and just looking at the farm it's looking pretty nice nice waterfall down there if you ever come visit you can come down here swim it's real fun gotta watch out for the fire ants though but just looking you know max altitude cruising over seeing seeing what's going on the farm and all the all this big lawn you know where my dad likes this lawn
21:25 since he's gone and may graze in here too may get our milk cow grazing down in here um you know all this grass may as well go to good work you know if you're if you're doing it you may as well feed feed everything nicely um but yeah so if you know i gotta juxtapose this to um you know started flying the drone in 2020 but um we'll juxtapose that so you can see kind of how things have improved and changed. And, um, still a lot of broom grass in my pasture, but I think as the thing gets richer, it's going away. I can see, I don't know if you can see out here
22:09 where the piles of fish were dropped. Um, but there's like little green spots where I dropped the fish. Oh, you're going to see the mud here and the dirt and just everything in the grass, just going to crap over here from this angle. And I told him the other day, I was like, I think you're grass. Thank you. You know, but anyway, he's, he doesn't, I don't think he has time or energy to get out there to rotationally graze, which sometimes it's a little bit harder. And coming down, looking at the sugar fields, bananas, you know, that I'll plant more sugar
22:47 into here. And then right there at my shed, you know, the shed's in now and the shed has the sugar, sugar cane press in it and everything. And, um, the Ulu trees, oh, the Longan tree got pruned. We pruned out the center of the tree. And then here, here's a little chicken wagon actually. So Sue's built this up the other day and now she has, uh, about eight chickens in a chicken wagon cruising around. Collect a lot of IMO under this bamboo here. It's a great tree. Let's see, what else? Just blurry, blurry, blurry. Oh, all these barrels, that's where I get my fish.
23:27 They get put in those barrels. But yeah, things are doing okay, you know. Let's see. Oh, there's Kapila's wood chipper. He's over here. He was fixing it yesterday. Hopefully that thing starts up for him. And he's probably going to start a YouTube soon. So there's my little shed. Oh, it's looking nice. Cool. So a little drone overflight. I'm going to get the cows actually this next week. I'm going to electric fence across here and then this there is a permanent fence over here so I'm
24:13 going to electric fence across here then electric fence down here and run the cows actually in this valley and I've just been using these two cows because they eat so much grass so well they were kind of starved as as little little cows so now they just they just eat like crazy versus my other cows are more picky. Got some microbe tanks there. And yeah, fruit trees doing well. You can see all the lemons there. You can see the limes. The tangelo is not doing as well, but hey, what can you do? Probably get out there and spray more, right? So I've been spraying for the past two
24:56 weeks of it spraying every Wednesday. It's really been helpful. Um, but yeah, so, so there you go. A little bit seeing my farm, um, what we're doing there. Um, you know, things been growing up. Um, and so, yeah, so, oh, and so, so Ben is saying he collected in the corner of his backyard that gets no direct sunlight. The neighbors have a tree and bushes over, overgrowing the wall. As for the colors had quite a few different yellows, blues, and greens. So Ben's here to talk about his IMOs that he collected and he did have a few colors under there. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'd plan to do
25:40 that with goats too. Um, except for the only problem with goats is they will eat your trees. so you have to fence your trees away they'll eat the bark off your trees and then you know you gotta watch out for that um intense yeah intensive rotational grazing man is the key and again korean natural farming the um you know the whole point is to have integrated animal systems and we have those integrated animals it really closes the loop like i was saying last week with the dairy cow. Now we have lactobacillus, cream, milk, butter. Pretty soon we'll probably have ghee, all those things,
26:22 and doing it. Yeah. So, yeah, maybe that was a Chinese spy balloon. Maybe it was me. Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that was a psyop because I don't know how the balloon all of a sudden got over Montana without anyone seeing it coming so I'm pretty sure it's not real but you know whatever I just don't trust the news or anything they say anymore especially after what happened in 2020 when it turns out that um that thing they gave everyone probably wasn't the best um I will keep that in mind gotta wait till spring kept the IMOs and doors okay
27:11 am I pressing my own cane juice and making crystallized sugar? Um, I'm pressing my own cane juice and I wanted to make my own sugar. I was looking at it yesterday. Um, a couple of YouTube videos on how to do it, but, um, basically it's like you just heat it up, skim off the, um, the foam that comes up and then pour it and keep stirring it as it cools and it turns to crystallized sugar. So, um, so looking forward to doing that. Um, got a, got a walk, got a thing to do it. So, um, so I wanted to do that. Um, man, I wish, I wish I could just bring folks in this way.
27:53 In fact, engage with my audience, start a QA poll. No. yeah okay I'm not sure what that does if I do that there is some way to bring in other folks I think I have to be on the mobile app for YouTube though and I'll do a little bit on our on our cane press and and maybe make a video my whole idea is to have pure KNF sugar and then make the ferments with it and then have it all be like all KNF the whole way through. So I'm not using sugar that's had pesticides and those things put on it, you know, just keep it all legitimately, um, pure KNF. That's the reason, you know, I've chosen a pure
28:41 KNF. I thought eventually I'll be producing sugar and then I'll be able to do that. So, um and yeah i have i have purple and i prefer the yellow um sugar cane the yellow is a little bit softer easier to go through has a little bit more um sugar so yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna make sugar as well and see um um and george is asking is there a way to tell a difference between cane sugars and other types of sugar in a home setting? I don't think so. Once sugar has been refined, I mean, maybe you could tell, but it's like, at least if it's refined white sugar,
29:25 it's just sucrose and there's no way to tell what source it came from, I don't think. Besides, like, you know, if you get into Rudolf Steiner and biodynamics, he'll talk about the energetics of beet sugar is not as good as cane sugar. Um, and I, I don't know how you would tell maybe, I mean, if you're, if you're going to believe that, then maybe you'd believe that a pendulum would tell you and maybe it would, I don't know. Um, it's up to, up to you, up to, you know, your intuition and what you want, but I know, um, you know, brown sugar from sugar cane,
30:00 pretty easy to make. Um, and yeah, it doesn't Demarara is probably sugar cane. Um, I think that just refers to the, that it wasn't refined of what it is. I'm not exactly sure. Um, so shoot, I wish I could bring in George right now. I'll have it set up for next week. I will. Um, cause I just don't want to try to live, um, configure my computer and make everyone wait to bring, bring in, but I'll have it set up for next week and let's schedule that and make sure that that works well. So, um, and if also you want to be part of office hour, let me know. Um, I'd love
30:43 to get you in there to do it. Cool. Yeah, no issue. Thanks. Cause it's just, yeah, I should should have been here a bit earlier to do that. But hey, you know, instead, my wife made me some cinnamon ginger tea this morning, which is really good because the other day I wasn't feeling well and my appetite's been a little weird. So just trying to stay healthy, stay hydrated, get some more rest, you know, sleep in a little longer and not show up 100%. so oh okay it refers the demarara it refers to the large grain sifted sugar
31:27 okay yeah i'm not i'm not entirely sure i know like jaggery is kind of raw brown sugar It's basically just raw brown sugar. Um, so, uh, because, because I can't, um, because I'm not going to bring up the, uh, the another person here today, I'll bring up, uh, this, the presentation here today. Oh, actually there is one more, there is one more thing I wanted to share before I get into this. Um, and that is that my student, past student, uh, Nancy, who's in the Bay area, um, sent me a email and she went to, um, she went to Young Song's tour.
32:22 so young song if you don't know is touring around america right now um and she sent me this photo and that is sun young in the front master cho on the projection and young song in the back and they're right now in sebastopol california and um given out um teaching teaching the jadam uh oh it's gonna focus anymore ah i broke it no broke the camera oops will it focus i don't know how to auto oh there okay um so picture of master cho he's looking um
33:13 you know report from young song report from nancy is that master cho is a sharp mind but a weakening body right now. Um, so, um, so master Cho still doing okay in Korea, hanging out, doing his thing. Um, and his son is, you know, cruising across America. I think he'll, he'll be up in New York and stuff and doing that. And if you want to, um, if you want to spend a bunch of money to learn something that you can learn in about five minutes by just buying the book, go ahead, tune in, check it out, be there. Um, and, um, I also encourage you, you know, to get together with the community
33:56 that joins, you know, anytime there's a Korean natural farming event, even if, you know, um, it's, it's worth checking out Young Song. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, um, discount him per se. Um, but, you know, uh, do feel like some of his marketing, he's kind of pinching off Master Cho and trying to use the momentum we've created through this to be like, bring everyone to the dam and just, you know, take leaf matter and put it in a bucket and rot it. And like, wow, that's amazing. Like I always, I had this, um, I had this, uh, realization in my head when I was on Maui,
34:30 when Young Song was here and I, he had stayed here in this exact cottage right here for a month. And then we went and did some stuff on big Island, fixed some problems with, um, little fire ants and things. And then we were cruising over to Maui and we had about like, you know, a hundred, a hundred or so people at this event and we're in this tent. And because I had already been to Young Song's lecture, like, I don't know, seven, eight, nine times, I've probably been like 20 times to his lecture. Um, and, and it's great, but you know, I'm like, and I kind of wandered
35:05 away from the tent and just like wandered off into the woods a little bit, this pasture and I was, was hanging there and i'm like and then i was thinking to myself i'm like and for his great crescendo he's gonna tell all these people to just put leaves in a bucket and a little bit of dirt and let it rot and like and everyone's like oh it's like life-changing and it's just like bro it's just like rotting stuff it's so jadam is so dirty and uh quick and dirty and just like like, um, stinky and gross and non-scientific and, um, disease laden and all this. And, but it, but it works.
35:45 It works, right? Like rotting material, microorganisms, breaking things down, spraying them. It works, but it works to like, just, and I was just like, man, people, their grand crescendo is coming to this event just to learn to throw stuff in a bucket and let it rot. it's like your kids are experts at jadam right don't you find you know like things that people leave around rotting right so anyway not not to um not to get too down on that because because it's it's useful like if you're in a poverty place or you don't have access to anything then jadam
36:20 or you want to just save the world and put it out there jadam's awesome but i just always i'm like his grand crescendo is going to be tell people to put leaves in a bucket and rot it it's like But he's actually most proud of his pesticides. So making homemade soap and then using sulfur and then boiling down herbs to create and using those three things. So sulfur, soap and boiled down herbs and different combinations to kill pests. And that's maybe where he's the most famous.
36:50 You know, his cheap, disgustingly cheap versions of his dad's sophisticated, very precise, very effective, very amazing stuff is like so his his JMS and his JLF are just, you know, sure, it's cheap, it's easy, it's gross, but it's just there. they're, oh man, I just, I just, it's hard for me to recommend it to people unless you're in those situations where you can't afford other things. Um, and it, it all depends on what you're, what you're doing and where your goals are. So, um, yeah, I think, I think that is, uh, so George is asking about the Demerara and I think that is the right sugar. Um,
37:34 yeah and the goofman saying yeah it'll work demarara is good um okay okay huh and george is saying he did a microgreens comparison with radish i did not see much difference wondering if anyone has advice on how to present the works of the solutions that are visible. Um, longer growth. Okay. So he's trying, I think George is trying to do a comparison. So he said he used seed soak and sprayed every day, the K and F leaf solution after, um, okay. And let me, is there lacto in there? Like if I would say the number one thing you want to be including
38:22 in microgreens, if you were growing microgreens, is lactobacillus because it will keep the molds down. And, um, yeah, there is some lacto in there, so you should be good. I don't know. Um, it would be interesting to see very, um, very, very good comparison between those two. and what's up from New Zealand yo time lapse video and then Ishmael Daniel is asking they made a lemon food can they use to make vinegar from the fruit
39:07 after pouring it off I think so I think there will be enough sugar content in there with the lemon to do all that And, um, oh yeah. Um, so I wouldn't, you know, lemon vinegar, that is, it's probably going to work. Um, it's all depends on your bricks. I think you need about 10 bricks before you, um, start the fermentation process to make vinegar. Maybe it's eight bricks. I'm not exactly sure. Eight to 10 bricks, somewhere in there of sugar content. And then it will make vinegar from pretty much anything will turn into vinegar. If you add water enough time, it will convert to a vinegar.
39:46 It's just what happens. And then George said he also did not include lacto in his microgreens trial. So I'd be interested to see a trial with lacto versus not lacto, because I think that's going to be your most differentiating factor, because sprouts really have a lot of the energy inside. however i was told if you do the seed soak your first um cotyledons should be um twice as big so it all it all depends i you know i don't know i mean the only proof is actually in doing it so um so seeing seeing it happen seeing it you know go it's the way to do it um so with that
40:34 getting into this I wanted to get back to this presentation a little bit and last time we covered the fermented plant juice recipe we went through this and we learned all about it and I think where we ended up getting to was right here which was the we went through, you know, why and what it is, and then all the different plants and the different reasonings. And then, you know, each of these had their own caveats to it. For instance, this one that says, flowers which smell strong are more effective. So, you know, all these things, like
41:20 if I go and review all of these things, like, you know, the seaweeds, it says, you know, reinforces color of fruit. Yeah. And then tips on like, you know, immature fruit versus matured fruit and all these things. There are all these pro tips on each of these slides. But if you want to check that out, I got to update KNF support, but KNF support slash office hours, you can find last week's episode, which talked all about the different reasons for that. And so I think where we're at here is to get into, um, um, is salt and sand an issue while making a can of food from seaweed?
42:13 I don't, I don't know. I would assume that's where, you know, he's talking about a brown seaweed he's probably talking about kelp I don't know it says brown seaweeds which is undaria pinifida let me see if I can put that in there to see I'm just gonna put this in and see Oh, so this is what he's talking about. So it is sort of a kelp. Let me bring this over here and drop this on this side and see. Hang on.
42:59 Oh, yeah. Yeah. So he's talking about this, which is more like a kelp. looks like that which to me that looks more like kelp than seaweeds i don't know i don't know what the difference between kelp and seaweed it says it's a brown seaweed uh and it says it's a native of japan sea in the pacific coast japan and korea wakame um but this is the kind of seaweed he's fermenting here. That's the one that was listed. So, um, so I don't know. Uh, I don't think much rocks and sand would be in that one. Um, and, but the salt, I don't think the salt
43:42 would matter. He kind of, it says, um, I think you kind of put a light stone to press down on the seaweed, right? Kind of like, um, press down on it, then, then add the sugar. So you're kind squeezing it out a little bit first but anyway talked about that um actually last couple weeks been talking about seaweed it's always a popular topic people want to ferment seaweed um probably because it grows in the ocean and it's so mineral rich and it's great stuff um but um but yeah so let's get down to this here of how to make it get into that bit we'll we'll uh we'll finish this up
44:19 here and it says when to collect materials and just before sunrise. And why would you do it just before sunrise? Well, the theory behind this is that what happens is most plants are growing at night actually. During the day, they have their leaves out and the leaves are collecting, you know, like solar panels they're collecting energy light through photosynthesis and they're gaining energy when that's happening the sunlight is a uv and all the the bandwidths of the sun are very powerful and if they hit a growth hormone or something very tender it will kind of um destroy that compound
45:07 so during the day the plant takes all the growth hormones and sucks them into the core of the plant and just collect sunlight during the day and it just gets energized during the day. Then evening happens, night happens, all those hormones and enzymes come out and go into the growing tips and you'll notice the plants grow more at nighttime. So the plant does most of its growth at night. And then, um, and then if you come and pick it right in the morning, just before sunrise, then all the growth tips are still in there before the heat has caused them to
45:44 to recede back into the plant. They're all in the very tips and they're the most concentrated because they've been growing all night. And if you snap those tips off, now you've gotten all the growth hormones. So if you collect just before sunrise, you're going to have more growth hormones, more enzymes, more living things that you have, everything that you want. That's the whole reason for it, right? Then it says quickly snap the growing points, right?
46:11 You don't want the old parts of the plant that are old, that are collecting sunlight, that are very used to just getting hit by the sun because they don't have very much growth hormone in them. Where the growth hormone is is in the growing tips, the shoots. So that's what you want to snap off. That's what you want to harvest. That's what you want to collect. That's why you don't want to just take a whole plant and take it and then make fermented plant juice out of it. So unless, of course, it's like comfrey or something like that, where a lettuce or something
46:40 where there's no like growth tip to it, where it's just a leaf, then you could grab the whole thing. But you're running these growth tips and you're wanting these things. And also the best time to collect is on what they call Lao Moon, which is just after the the full moon. So today, today's moon phase is Mahealani. It's pretty much full moon. You'll see it tonight. Let me put it over here so you guys can see because I'm not on that screen. But if I go tomorrow, Kulu, the following day, La'aokukahi. So two days from now is La'aokukahi.
47:26 and what happens in Laokukahi two days from now if you wake up in the morning you will notice the sun is rising in the east and the moon is setting in the west and both heavenly bodies are above you and you'll also notice there's a very high tide you'll also notice if you cut plants they'll just continually give out more and more sap like they just continue to ooze and it's that when all those plants are being sucked up by the full moon just after the full moon. When the sun and the moon are both up in the morning time, that's when you want to grab
47:57 and grow. So I think that's what he means by number three, special attention, meaning that, you know, the right moon phase, the right weather phase, the right everything, and taking the growing points. So this is when to collect the material. I don't know why quickly snap the growing points is when, but yeah, seems pretty legit to me. Thomas is saying here, with this in mind, since photosynthesis is happening during the day, wouldn't a plant be full of sugars during the day and an FBJ made from a plant collected during the
48:45 day be full of those plant sugars. No, no. The plant actually translocates its sugars. And the photosynthesis, I'm not exactly sure. It's chlorophyll is what's doing the photosynthesis. I'm not sure it's sugars themselves. The sugars, I think, are more fragile than the chlorophyll and the photosynthesis. Um, yeah, and your intention. So, um, so anyway, and if you are interested more about the moon, um, and those phases I did, um, if you search on YouTube or if you go on my channel and you
49:31 search down here. Let's not have that play. Let's just go to my channel here. Can I do it? My channel. And then here. So on the channel and then search for moon. Oh, I put a slash after it. But here you go. KNF moon calendar for planting. So you can just search KNF moon calendar for planting. In fact, let me just copy the link. can paste it in here. There you go. And then, um, this talks all about it. And I know I heard from somebody, it's hard to see this screen. So it's actually hard to see what I'm looking at. Um,
50:15 but, um, but this is the way the moon app works and all that. Um, so if you want to learn more about the moon and the moon phases, only 545 views. Uh, it is two hours and 22 minutes long, But I think I want to maybe redo this in a better way to share it with more people because it's just a presentation that I made. Yeah, and there is an app that I made for the moon phases. It's only on iPhone right now. I think all my Android apps are down because I had to do some, I don't know. They always have things that need things done, and I don't think I did them. But that iOS, I have all that up.
50:56 So, okay. In the morning, the plant is producing hormones and growth regulators and complex nutrients for the day's growth. That's why you should harvest in the morning. These get transported to the new growth. Yep. So all those things. Yeah, cool. So I think I'm correct with that theory. You can fact check me or whatever. But, and I don't think, I don't think it's Hawaii specific. It's not. The whole earth uses the thing. Oh, moon garden. Interesting. I should probably redo the app and put out four or five more apps. Just corner the market on that.
51:40 Sugars get moved to the sinks during the evening. Well, at least an hour after sunset triggered by the far red light, proteins will be constructed in the leaves during the day. Okay. Okay, so yeah, it's a great bunch of people. Thanks, Partita. That's awesome. You're so scientific, and I don't know where you learned all this, but it's amazing. I'm glad you share it with us. Okay, so she's saying that if you harvest during the day, you're going to get more proteins. Yeah, interesting. That's something where I need to learn a little bit more of the science behind it and all that.
52:19 But I think in general, I'm correct with the theory. I mean, you can fact check me and really show me what's up. And I'd love to go deep into that and see where I'm right and where I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure. So how to make it? Basically, he's, you know, he's showing a few different plants here. But really, you want to pick one at a time. So you go out and you pick just the tips of them. Pick them up before dawn, right as the sun is starting to rise, before the morning dew has gone away. The auxiliary buds, the bamboo shoots, these things, watermelon, you know, all these little
52:58 indeterminate shoots you can grab. Okay, I am correct. Okay, cool. That's great. Yeah, okay. So, you know, go snap the tips in the morning. just one at a time though try not to mix a whole bunch of things so just take one material that you've collected in the morning mix it together I usually use a bowl looks like they're using a tarp here and they're using crude sugar which is brown sugar and it says that of your plant material you can weigh it and you can add one third to half the amount of the materials
53:36 so meaning that if I got two pounds of materials I'd add one pound or a little less than a pound a third of two pounds. And you mix it together, mix it together, mix it together until it looks nice and then pack it into a vessel. And then they're adding a stone on top to keep it down. So, and to keep the volume down to two thirds with a rock on top. I often don't use a rock. I'm not going to lie to you. I just pack it in, just smash it down with my fist, get it in the jar vessel bucket whatever it is very nice and I don't put a rock on top however
54:16 you could um and it's important that you don't wash the plants before you mix them with the sugar and um and you can and it says here also make several kinds of fpj with a single material so make a bunch of them with only one material in each jar or each each vessel that you're fermenting but then you can mix them when you apply it later so when you go to actually put it onto your plants you can mix in two three of them without changing the dilution so three even at one to five hundred you can mix them in and then those get put onto your plants so after they packed it in two thirds
54:59 they cover it with paper and then the juice completes in five to seven days I actually find here in Hawaii, it's done in three days, three, four days. Um, it happens really fast when they're higher temperature. Oh, Hey, thanks though. Mason really appreciate it, man. Oh, it's good to get super chats once in a while. Appreciate it. Um, and, um, so, um, the power is strongest in a couple of days after completion. Um, I'm not, so, so maybe it's best to use the FPGA a couple days after completion is what it's saying. I'm not entirely sure. I've never heard
55:40 that. I do know that from growing tips, their best, their shelf life's about three months to a year, depending, three months to a year. After a year, if you've done it from growing tips, it's more like you've done it from fruits. Fruits are used more in the mature stage. And so your growing tips will lose all their vital hormones and enzymes and those things. They'll just kind of, or actually they'll convert from hormones into enzymes, I think is what it, what it ends up being. And you have a lot more enzymes, although I'm not even sure that's possible. Enzymes, I think,
56:15 are, I don't know, getting in above my head of scientific stuff. And I need to read more about enzymes really is what it comes down to. Um, and keeping that dark, cool place, right? So it's pretty simple. It's just like making kimchi, right? The beginning stage here, I think, when it said right here, it said the origins of FPGA are in the kimchi. So it's just like making kimchi. It's just like making sauerkraut. You're taking the material, mixing it with sugar, little salt in there. And then so here's a picture of them making it, right? This looks like drop
56:56 wort. They got a bunch of drop wort, nice growing tips cut. They're mixing it in. I don't know where they mixed it. I think there's some slides missing from this because they're actually supposed to be mixing it in this bucket with the sugar and mixing it and then packing it into this jar just like you would making a kimchi. And then it looks like they put a bunch more sugar on top, which I don't know if they needed to do that. And then there's that mixing in with the dropwort. That's really what mine usually looks like. Maybe they mixed it all in
57:29 there. I'm not exactly sure. This isn't the best guide. And then they're draining it off through a bucket. And look at all that juice they got. So this juice, you don't squeeze it out. It's just the juice that comes out osmotically and then it's fermented. And it's just the best juice. It's not the rest of the crap that's in the cell. So I'm not sure it's the best picture to go through and look at it. But, um, so they're saying, you know, how to make it essentially, you've got the ingredients with the dew on it, which means you harvested it early in the morning.
57:58 It's still a little bit moist from morning dew. Um, cut them into two inch sizes if they're too big or shred them with your hands. Don't put it in a blender. Don't pulverize it. Um, it's not, the juice you're looking for. And then he says to add a one-to-one weight ratio. So again, this contradicted the previous slide. And I find that one-to-one sugar is far too much. So I'm going to disregard this and say that this is actually incorrect here, unless you're using a really sweet fruit, in which case then it is equal parts. But I would just disregard this if you're making
58:40 it from plants. So sorry, maybe it's a little bit confusing because it's like, how much sugar do I use? He said a third, half, and then one to one. If you come to the class, I will show you the exact amount of sugar to use because you can actually tell when you break that osmotic boundary and there's nothing like seeing it and being it and feeling it and having it to do to see how much sugar is enough. But you really don't need much. And if you watch that, there's this guy on YouTube that, you know, pretty popular, he adds way too much sugar. You'll see sugar at the bottom just
59:11 sitting there. It's like, oh man, it's cringeworthy almost. And then he also puts a, there's a sugar cap, which also I disregard this. Every time I made it with Master Cho, there was never a sugar cap. And you can look at other Master Cho lectures where people ask about the sugar cap. Sometimes it's on fruit juice to kind of retard the fermentation. But anyway, I just, I don't do that. I don't do that. It's unnecessary. And then it ferments. And after it's fermented, you filter it. After fermentation is completed, surely filtering it for preserve.
59:55 so what that means is you pour off the juice and then add more sugar at that point to super saturate it and that's when you get more sugars added so in this recipe here where there's there's so much sugar added in the beginning unnecessary you don't need that much for fermentation to occur you do need more sugar at the end to super saturate and keep it from rotting however to preserve it so i'm sorry this this slide it's kind of like confusing not the best it's really um contradictory, right? Here it is saying, you know, this much sugar, half to a third.
1:00:30 And then you're looking at this one and saying equal parts. It's like, well, the only thing I can tell you is that when you, you know, if you're following a recipe from a book, it's hard to know when you do it in person, I can show you exactly how much. And it's like, okay, enough sugar. And then you'll save money on sugar cost essentially. Um, so after you've made it then how to use it um and always always always it's almost always used with something else so you never really use it alone you use it with something else so like if you put it plug it
1:01:07 into this calculator here can of solution calculator it will show you that you know plant juice isn't just used alone however it is typically diluted one to five hundred which is 0.1 to 0.2% concoction. And you can apply it on leaf surface and into compost with IMO. So it's a biostimulant. This food gets everything going. But George, I'd recommend that you don't use as much sugar in the fermentation process and you actually supersaturate it later versus using the sugar up front. anyway it's just um it's a there's yeah but anyway um so anyway
1:01:57 um and then yeah and then here it says you know add crude sugar right so i think when it's saying add crude sugar i think this is talking about the super saturation right here is adding the crude sugar. Because if you add too much sugar in the fermentation, the osmotic extraction fermentation process, the early stage, then your sugar doesn't make it into your final solution. You end up composting that sugar. Or if you're going to turn it into a vinegar, I guess it's not lost. But I recommend less sugar in upfront always. It's like a little
1:02:35 bit of sugar just to get that osmotic pressure going, and then it'll ferment. And then later, you can add the sugar. So, and it says here that, you know, the phylosphere microbial activities will be accelerated. So all the microbes living on your leaf surface will be excited there. So I don't know if that was the best one, but here, thank you, Cho Global Natural Farming. That's the best we got from master Cho coming to us and try my best to translate that of how to do the fermented plant juice, uh, which I call KNF food because it makes sense
1:03:14 because that's how it's used. Um, and so with that, we're almost at the hour and next week, if I get to this presentation, we'll bring you on through the nutritional cycle, which seems fun. It's always a complex, great topic. So hopefully the slides will make it more clear and everything. And then one last thing I wanted to get to before I sign off here was that Partito was saying up here, she read a paper that suggested cobalt levels, let me transition this one, that cobalt levels come mostly from insect urine and frass. I don't
1:03:48 know if this is true, but it makes some sense that B12 is deemed a weak area for vegan diets where the food is washed. So that's interesting to me that cobalt is coming from insect urine and frass, right? And yeah, I do use JMS. I'm just, I'm saying that it's the right case and things. I don't use it here on this farm very much. We do use it for building up things. Okay.
1:04:34 And then PostUp is saying, I find in my limited observation areas with IMO4 and JMS on my land are far exceeding the areas with one or the other. Oh, so he's using a combination. JMS only are the areas that look the weakest, and the whole farm gets the seed-soaked solution weekly. So, cool. It's great to see trials being done. Yeah, the eyes and all that. Okay, I'm just back a little bit, reading these things, making sure I get all of this going. And, okay, yeah, and JMS does increase the electrical conductivity of your soil.
1:05:22 Cleaning process, more simple, yep. So all those things are happening. Okay, yeah. So anyway, it's all good. cool cool so um thank you thank you guys for tuning in next week i'm going to try and have it set up so we can bring on a guest and um share a little bit hopefully um coordinate with george be great to check in with him see his projects going his micro greens all that looks super exciting um i want to thank you guys uh i also got the um i fixed my ssl certificate
1:06:07 it. So pure KNF foundation website back up and running here. And then, you know, from here, it links over, you know, here's the office hour live happening right here, right now. Oh my gosh. And then here you can go KNF support, check out this website, which is what our foundation has been running recently. And it looks like I got a few questions to answer and office hours here. I have a little bit more looks like the last one was December 11th so today after I sign off from here I will upload all that and get all those things going so hey and thank you for a super chat Daniel appreciate it man
1:06:46 it's good and yeah so cool and share videos and all that and thanks so just want to thank you thank Pierre Caniff Foundation thank all you guys for tuning in and appreciate you guys. Have a great week. Um, long live the natural farmer. Aloha, my, oh, and check this out. I got this slow closing curtain. Check this one. Oh yeah. Bye now. See ya.