Root Nutrient Columns, IMO Box Ratios, Tillage and Soil Carbon
Drake opens 2025 with the I Ching hexagram Kan, water, then recaps a month-long class he taught a five-acre kava farm crew in ʻŌnōmea. He walks through Master Cho's solution vocabulary (seed IMO, KNF medicine, cleanser, reproduction, protectors, minerals) instead of acronyms like WCP and WCA, and explains the three levels of knowing: manaʻo, opinion; naʻauao, knowledge; ʻike, wisdom earned through repetition.
Most of the show covers building nutrient columns in poor soil: auger a hole three to four feet deep every five feet across a field, fill it with microbes, compost, cinder, and wood chips, so roots have a reason to grow down. In rocky ground like Puna, skip drilling and pile 8 to 16 cubic feet of IMO-inoculated wood chips on the surface instead, planting around it. He gives a spray schedule (daily is best, weekly is great, biweekly is good, less than monthly causes problems) and cites a lecture claiming tillage burns off 1 to 2 percent of soil carbon in temperate climates versus 10 to 12 percent in the tropics, with biochar and terra preta as long-term carbon storage.
The second half plays footage from Pure KNF Basic Poultry Training 6 of 10, shot at Master Lee's farm in Muju, Korea. It covers building an indoor IMO box: hard-cook rice with three cups water to four cups rice, fill the box two-thirds full, use a woven bottom rather than wood or plastic, and dig into the dark soil layer under leaf mold rather than just collecting surface leaves.
Master Cho also explains that sugar cane juice and molasses come from the same source, discusses good, bad, and neutral microorganisms, and traces EM (effective microorganism) to a Japanese religious group, noting it works best in Okinawa where it originated. He recommends collecting indigenous microbes about 100 meters higher in elevation than your farm, from drier ground rather than wet, since trees in harsher, drier spots grow smaller but bear better fruit.
Questions answered
- 8:32 Jadam vs Master Cho's solutions for a kava farm crew — He taught solution vocabulary instead of Jadam acronyms, and the student finally understood the cost and reasoning behind each one.
- 10:53 Young kava plants with soft-leaf eaters and weak growth — Feed the plants seawater and ferments made from hone-hone grass, comfrey, and banana to build structure and health.
- 12:19 How do you get roots to grow into hard red clay soil? — Auger a hole three to four feet deep and fill it with microbes, compost, cinder, and wood chips so roots have a reason to reach down.
- 18:23 How often should you spray KNF solutions on crops? — Daily is best, weekly is great, every two weeks is good, and anything less than once a month causes problems.
- 23:34 What if your soil is rocky instead of deep dirt? — Don't drill into rock; pile 8 to 16 cubic feet of IMO-inoculated wood chips on the surface and plant around it instead.
- 27:08 Does tilling hurt your soil's carbon? — Tilling can burn off 1 to 2 percent of soil carbon in temperate climates and 10 to 12 percent in the tropics.
- 39:12 How do you build an IMO box indoors in cold weather? — Hard-cook rice with three cups water to four cups rice, al dente, and fill the box two-thirds full.
- 41:20 What should the bottom of an IMO box be made of? — A woven natural material, not solid wood or plastic, so microbes can reach the rice from the soil below.
- 42:35 Should you collect just leaf litter for an IMO box? — No, dig down into the dark soil layer under the leaf mold, not just the surface leaves.
- 46:00 Is sugar cane juice different from molasses? — No, boiling sugar cane juice down is what makes molasses or brown sugar; it's the same source.
- 50:13 How do good, bad, and neutral microorganisms interact? — Build up more good microorganisms so the neutral ones side with them instead of the bad ones.
- 51:39 What is EM and should you use it? — EM is tied to a Japanese religious group and works best in Okinawa where it originated, so use your own indigenous microbes instead.
- 55:22 What elevation should you collect indigenous microbes from? — Collect roughly 100 meters higher than your farm's own elevation for stronger microbes.
- 57:00 Does a wetter growing spot produce better fruit? — No, trees in dry mountain areas stay smaller but produce better fruit than ones grown in wet areas.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 Intro and welcome to 2025
- 2:51 I Ching reading: the abysmal, water
- 6:53 2024 farm recap
- 8:32 Teaching a kava farm class on KNF solutions
- 11:34 Building nutrient columns for root growth
- 18:23 How often to spray KNF solutions
- 23:34 Rocky soil alternative: surface piles
- 27:08 Tilling and soil carbon loss
- 32:18 Biochar and terra preta
- 34:01 Three levels of knowing: manaʻo, naʻauao, ʻike
- 36:07 Poultry training video: Master Lee's farm in Muju
- 39:12 Building an IMO box indoors
- 41:20 IMO box bottom material
- 46:00 Sugar cane juice vs molasses
- 48:35 Liquid solutions and shortcuts
- 50:13 Good, bad, and neutral microorganisms
- 51:39 EM and the Okinawa connection
- 55:22 Collecting indigenous microbes by elevation
- 57:00 Harsh conditions build stronger microbes and fruit
- 1:01:51 Sign-off
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
2:00 hey good morning welcome to the knf podcast yay new for 2025 same thing but different welcome uh you know a few few technical glitches getting getting the thing up getting it together here today for you live um coming through hopefully on a bunch of whole channels and things, but we'll see. So we got an hour of KNF coming your way. You can ask questions live if you're here on YouTube. Otherwise, you can email questions to drake at pureknf.org. You can answer your questions live. And then the rest of the show, we will be covering this year, going through
2:51 the depths of KNF and all that. And we're on the topic of animals right now. So we'll continue that in the show here. Good to see some people coming in live, some members here in the house. We got Printer Bear. We got Rainbow Possum Farm. Great to see you. Thanks for coming in from Connecticut and Seattle, respectively. Pretty amazing. So today, let's start off with a little bit of higher wisdom, a tiny microscopic bit of higher wisdom for you. And today is January 5th, 2025. Amazingly, we made it through the new year. It's all good. So today is the abysmal
3:36 or water, and it says flow like water through difficult situations. The image of this hexagram con is that of water. Water falling from the heavens, water coursing over the earth and streams, water collecting itself in pure and silent pools. This image is meant to teach us how to conduct ourselves in trying situations. If we flow through them, staying true to what is pure and innocent in ourselves, we escape danger and reach a place of quiet refuge and good fortune beyond.
4:23 Khan often appears to warn of troubling times either drawing near or already at hand, and to counsel you not to fall into longing for an immediate or effortless solution to the trouble. When you become emotionally ambitious, when you cling to comfort and desire to be free of the currents of change in life, you block the creative from resolving the difficulty in your favor. What is necessary now is to accept the situation, to flow with it like water, to remain innocent and pure and sincere while the higher power works out the solution.
5:16 It's not that you shouldn't act now. It's that you should not act out of frustration, anxiety, or despair. or a desire to escape the situation. Instead, still yourself and look for the lesson hidden inside the difficulty. Correct your attitude until it's open, detached, unstructured. Abandon your goals and stay on your path where you proceed step by step arm in arm with the sage. Those whose hearts and minds
6:02 are kept pure and innocent will relate properly to all events, understand their cosmic meaning, and flow through them with strength, clarity, and brilliance of pure water. so that's a good one for 2025 i think it's going to be an interesting year coming up 2024 was so peaceful restful all those things of everyone suggested there would be all this chaos and yet it was very nice of not you know huge uh no riots no uh you know no people getting upset
6:53 all that stuff so kind of interesting to see how that went I'm sure everyone had their own take on it and their own way of going about it but uh you know from my perspective very peaceful here on the farm getting things together this year setting ourselves up for doing a bunch of research getting into more knf uh putting the microbes in the soil growing good things doing it um yeah so I got some other good folks in the house now we got stonemason coming in from indiana robert charles coming up from the jungle in that office hour yeah so um you know here to explain the works of master cho
7:39 do the things answer the questions be a support for everybody out there and doing doing what's best um and flowing through it like pure water you know i don't know what's coming i don't know how things are going to turn out, but I know that if I stay cool and flow through it all, it probably will work okay. So, um, so I did want to share just a little bit here. Um, been working on a few things here. Oh, wait, it's not, that's not the right one. I wanted to do it kind of like that one there. We'll share that one there. That way you can't see the right side
8:23 of that screen there. Um, but you know, we've been going through over the solutions here and the solutions in regard to animals. Although last year, 2024, we did the solutions according to Jadam. And I just finished, um, I just finished teaching a, uh, course across the street. And, um, one of the students that he was familiar with Jadam and he was like all hot on it, thinking it was the best thing since sliced bread. And after going through and explaining master Cho's solutions and underspent and explaining to him, you know, over the course
9:04 of a month. We met about eight times, I think, because we met twice a week, maybe only six or eight times for a couple hour sessions and went over the whole class. We did all the solutions together except for KNF Medicine because I was like, you know, you guys aren't really ready for this at your farm. And we didn't do any IMO beyond seed IMO and preserve seed IMO, but was able to explain to him all these solutions here and with the words. And I started off the class by just explaining instead of these acronyms, which is classic for KNF, which itself is an acronym,
9:45 which stands for cryptic natural farming or whatever you want to make it stand for. It doesn't really matter. Um, also known as Korean natural farming, but, um, so we did, um, seed IMO, KNF medicine, cleanser, um, there's three types of cleanser there, uh, food, fuel, structure, reproduction, protectors, minerals, and explaining this vocabulary to him. Whereas before he thought in these acronyms like WCP, WCAP. You know, there's all these different ways of going about it. But when I explained to him this way and then went through the whole thing, he had a really good
10:27 understanding of what and why we are doing all of this and how much it's going to cost you to make it, materials, labor, all those things going into their five-acre kava farm. And instead of just going to damn where they thought, oh yeah, we'll just, um, you know, we'll just rot a bunch of stuff in a barrels and do this. They now have a much better understanding of why master Choa has these certain things, how to actually solve bug problems versus just to damn where you would, um, where you would just kill everything. Um, and you'd be able to actually nurture your plants
11:06 from the roots up the whole, you know, their whole point is they're trying to grow roots. when I came to them the first day, I'm like, look, we're going to maximize the goals here. You know, you want to make labor easier and you want to make production bigger and you're growing roots. So what we got to focus on is the soil and the plant health above. And they have a few pests, mostly soft leaf eaters eating their plants. And I was like, well, you know, what you need to do here is actually nourish your plants. They're unhealthy and they're trying to grow into this
11:39 red soil out here in Onomea. It's old ash flow from Mauna Kea behind me, sort of actually to my right. And it is very red soil, which indicates that it's very old and very little nutrients. So bringing the seawater up, nourishing the land with the seawater, making foods out of the kava, out of, what else are they going to make it out of? Hone-hone-grass and some comfrey. But they made a bunch out of it. Oh, and bananas. So making foods out of those to be able to feed, get the plant nutrients in there, and then being able to use the fuel to nourish them.
12:24 But primarily because they're growing roots, it's telling them, look, the structure, also known as calcium phosphate. but the structure is the most important because where's the most of the structure of the plant is in the roots and then I also showed them how to screw their soil because it's almost like clay like stuff out here it's really you have to drill down auger a hole fill it with microbes fill it with compost fill it with cinder fill it with wood chips and grass and whatever you can stuff
12:59 in that hole, drill down three, four feet, make a column. And now the plant growing here now has it wants to reach out into that area. Otherwise the plant's just growing there. And why the hell would it reach down into this soil? What plants just going to grow roots for no reason down to something? No plants grow roots to bring nutrients to the plant, right? If there's no nutrients out there, why would the plant grow out of you know why would it reach its roots down there and be like yeah i'm just gonna you know grow some roots down here into this hard clay for no reason
13:33 no you want it the whole point of ava is to grow roots because the roots are ground up they're sold to people and if you don't have a column of nutrients every five every 10 feet alternated so it's about every five feet in the field why is it going to grow roots out there it's just going to keep roots at the very surface top level it's going to eat some of the mulch you put on there you know they could you know what you want to grow roots you got to have the roots want to grow toward something and for something right they're in a field it was you know bulldozed before that it was moat you know
14:14 it's mowed. There's no leaf litter. There's nothing, no nutrients leaking down into the ground. It's why are your roots going to grow out? Right. But it's questions like this where I'm like, wow, to me, it's really obvious. Right. But I've been doing this for what since 2008. So it's 18 years, 2007, 2007. So 18 years, 18 years, I've been doing this. And by the time I've been doing it for 18 years following this dude master cho right here now it's like obvious i'm like how is this not like obvious like why is a root going to grow into nutrient less dirt like
14:55 like i don't know i don't know i don't know maybe you know i don't know like maybe it's just but i'm like why why would your roots grow down here like there's nothing for like you know it's like Like, you know, do you just drill a hole into the ground and dig a tunnel into your ground? Just because there's not gold or anything like, no, people don't just drill for no reason. The plants don't just go down for no reason.
15:20 So if you make a column of nutrients and then that water flows into that nutrients and it starts percolating out into the soil through this little column that you've made into the soil. Now your roots are like, yay, there's nutrients down there. There's nutrients. There's nutrients where I want. and now they're going to reach down into your soil. And then the microbes from that thing are going to be like, oh, there's air and they're going to grow out from there. And now you're going to get like good soil. And to me, that's pretty obvious. It's pretty like, yeah, but
15:53 everyone else, like, I don't know. I mean, not everybody. I'm trying to like, if you're in this mode, like maybe it's illuminating your mind to be like, wow, that's a great idea. Then I'm not trying to be like uh you know um i'm trying to be encouraging here but um but yeah you gotta you gotta provide some some some reasons for that right the the plant like how do you think it works like you just drop chemical fertilizer on top and then the plant like doesn't shuts down its roots because now it's no longer feeding microbes and it's not having this association and then the plant then
16:27 suffers from health because it's not getting the micronutrients that it needs and it's not able to convert your soil into anything and there's no microbiome and then your plant gets all this disease and pests like right i mean to me it's obvious right but if they're brand new to this maybe not and maybe it's like illuminating your mind but you know putting organic matter putting a column of goods and then taking the knf solutions and this is where the jadam would actually be really good this you know incredibly cheap micro like i call it disgustingly cheap
16:59 microbes and dumping those microbes into that column and dumping the disgustingly cheap food into that column because there's because you're just you're dumping like bulk material into this column that's then going to percolate out in your soil versus you don't want to spray the disgustingly cheap microbes and the disgustingly cheap food on your plant because it's going to cause more disease and they can't absorb it. And it's not as like, but using those techniques of like young song chose disgustingly cheap methods of drenching those into the soil and master chose
17:31 methods of like this really high quality stuff that you spray that absorbs into the plant surface so that the plant gets powered up so they can grow more roots. And then giving the roots, the motivation to go down into this column, like isn't, doesn't that make sense? Isn't it like you want to grow roots but you need to like you know and so people think oh i want to grow roots so i'm going to till the soil you're going to you're going to destroy all your your whole soil food web up here and till it and then as soon as it rains it's going to compress again and there's
18:05 and you're not going to till in enough nutrients for this thing to go into versus you drill a column which leaves all your soil microbiome intact and this column now is this rich air rich um you know like it's gonna start composting in place and the microbes are gonna break all that down you're gonna have a column and now it's gonna reach for this versus you try to till all this soil it's gonna compact and you're gonna destroy everything versus you just make a a tunnel down a vertical tunnel, you know, like, doesn't it make sense to like, like once I see it,
18:41 maybe it's like, yeah, that's, that's pretty obvious. And it's like, yeah. And I help, help these guys out, you know, I was teaching them how to make the solutions, how to spray those directly in the plant, how to get that. So you can go, you know, I was telling them like, you know, if you did this every day, it'd be great, but you probably can't afford that. If you did it every week, it'd be even, you know, it'd be great, but you probably can't afford that. If you did it every two weeks, you're going to be right in there, really doing well.
19:06 If you did it every three weeks, you probably should get a little bit more motivated because you're trying to make money off your plants and you're not going to give them back to them. If you did it once a month, you'd still be okay. If you're doing it less than once a month, you're probably going to see problems because you're not feeding your plant enough to motivate it, to reach out, to fuel it, to build better roots, to build a better microbe community. and if you're trying to make money off something you kind of gotta you know money in is money out
19:34 right and so they're they're monocropping this thing and they're trying it's like yeah i think you can do this and if you know otherwise you're gonna get disease pressure and it's not that hard and and then by the time year after year of spraying your plants once a week or you know once a month or whatever more frequent than once a month then your soil and everything in these columns you've made are going to, to, it's going to actually get synergy moving towards you. And then you'll have to do less labor. And that's what I was trying to get them to, um, to understand.
20:06 It's like, yeah, you know, in the beginning, and then I was teaching about exponential theory, or I'm like, it's nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. And then all of a sudden it just takes off and you're like, Whoa. And it's like, yeah, you got to keep doing the small work, even though, you know, you're going, and then all of a sudden it just takes off. And then less day, you know, I didn't really harp on them too bad about disturbing the soil because when you harvest Ava and you're pulling up the roots, you got to kind of disturb all the roots. But as soon
20:30 as you come in after the roots, then you put in KNF protectors. You put back the IMOs you just messed up. You feed the soil with the soil solution. You do all these steps and these stages and you go through and you build these things back up. And that's what I was trying to like encourage them, give them that idea, be like, look, this is super achievable for you. really achievable. And it's not that hard and you just gotta, yeah. So, you know, you're saying roots spelunking. Yeah. You got to put the nutrients down there for them to,
20:59 to move into and the microbes to move from there to your roots and everything and your plants and the whole deal. So screwing your soil, making it, you know, screw augering your soil, making a column, putting food in there, putting the right stuff in there. So you're not just trying to destroy it and put it everywhere. You're trying to actually put concentrated bits of stuff around, right? People often think, oh, I'll put a cover crop and then I'll till it under and then there'll be lots of nutrients. It's like, that's actually fairly
21:29 poor thinking because you're going to till it, you're going to destroy all your fungus, all your microorganisms, their whole substructure, their pipes, their electrical lines, like their whole civilization. And you're going to put a tiny bit of nutrients under the soil and you're actually going to uproot all those and like uproot their whole thing. It's like tilling under stuff and tilling in stuff is like, you know, if you do that, sorry, but it's, it's kind of poor thinking versus drill these columns down, put the food in there. And,
21:59 you know, in their case where they're farming two acres of this stuff, it's like, they can just go and every week, you know, do, do a, you know, 50 foot row and just put in 10 columns or, you know, five columns in there or whatever, you know, like, like it's not that hard to fill those things up. And by the time, you know, a year goes by your entire field, every five feet has a column that's full that the roots are going to be like, Whoa, and your new and your old crops are going to benefit from that. And it's just like, you know, every week do a few, you know, and by the
22:34 time you get 52 weeks done, your entire fields are done. And yeah, it's a little bit more labor. And maybe, you know, if you think of this scaling up to hundreds of acres or people that are doing, and they're like, I can't do that. It's like, you know, they, they invent tools like, like seed drills and these things where it's like, you could easily build like an auger thing that augers it and then fills the column and then moves and just, and a machine that just goes and just drills holes every, every, you know, 10 feet in a field drills these columns down.
23:06 you know it just the first part is the auger it goes augers and then it just goes and it fills and then it goes and it augers and it fills and then like you know like you could easily build a machine that did this type of work um and so you know um the best the best time of year to drill is is is when you can you know every and again i'm talking about this solution here and drilling the soil because we are in 12 feet of soil. If I was doing this recommendation out in rocky soil where there's a bunch of rocks in it, I would not give this same solution. So this
23:50 is very dependent on the fact that they're just below me and we are in 12 feet of dirt. Soil's like being too kind to it. It's like 12 feet of dirt where you can literally dig a hole down 12 feet before you hit a rock. And it's just, it's an ash flow. So we're on an, you know, I don't, I think a dormant volcano. I don't think Monika is extinct, but I think it's a dormant volcano. And it's one of its last explosions was a bunch of ash that came down this direction for about a two mile radius or two mile width on the mountain. And I happen to be right in the center
24:29 of it. So there's the tons and tons of ash. Um, I mean, trillions of tons of ash. I don't know a ton. The earth's amazing how much, uh, weight it can carry and put out there. So, um, yeah. So, so, you know, avoiding tilling, drilling these holes, doing these things, you can top dress the IMO if you want. And I'm always, you know, top dressing IMO makes sense, but also if you you know because if you top dress then you're having your microbes start to work down from the surface and that's great that's great don't get me wrong top dressing mulching
25:04 all those things are great but that's going to require enormous volumes of things and to put it down and your time it's going to be going like this so as you're doing that if you also drill a column down now you're fracking out from the bottom as well as growing from the top and the more you can combine these tactics and get these things going, this is the way that you're really going to be getting your roots to grow, you know, especially since they're trying to grow roots in a lot of dirt. Um, and so this is, you know, this is the way of what I'm talking about to do is,
25:40 you know, combine these things, understand your situation. I'm not saying like, here I am talking about drilling holes and people like, well, I'm in rock. Don't drill into a rock, build up, build pyramids of, of nutrients every, um, every five feet. I mean, that's going to be really expensive because it's so much more material, but again, build up. Or in fact, if, if I was in, if I was in out in Puno where it's super rocky, right, it's, it's just solid rock. I mean, it's fresh lava rock. What I would do is instead of doing a field where they have fields and rows,
26:12 I would do circular things where I would drop a pile like two wheelbarrows or maybe like eight cubic feet or 16 cubic feet of a pile of wood chips, inoculate that with IMO, and then plant around the outside. So if you're looking at it from above, looking down at it, here's your pile, and then your plantings are going to go on the outside of that circle. And then that way, now instead of drilling down, digging down, don't dig down at all. Just drop this pile on the surface and then plant around it. You know, if you, I'm looking at it from the top view, but you can look
26:52 at it from the side view, drop your pile and then plant around it here. Right. And, and space them out far enough that it makes sense. And then have a pile, pile, pile, you know, and, and, and stagger them so you can get the piles closer and you can still mow in between, but plant next to your pile and don't drill and don't dig. Right. So, so it's all, all these things that I'm saying are location and, you know, crop specific and, um, everything, but, but if you can drill and you can do this, this is like the best way to frack into there. Um, yeah. And yeah. And, and, and, um,
27:32 Sow here is saying that, yeah, he was watching a lecture that said where tillage in temperate climates could cause the soil to lose 1% or 2% of its carbon. And in tropical climates, it can lose 10% to 12% of its carbon, right? So if you're tilling and it's temperate, it's not nearly as gnarly as you're tilling in the tropics, where I'm in the tropics, right? In Hawaii. and if you till here your carbon basically it goes and you can think of it as a wood supply and the carbon in the soil is like your wood and if you till it it's like it's like you just took
28:12 a furnace and you blew a bunch of air into there and so instead of having these nice embers that are kind of sitting there and cooking and growing and doing and holding and buffering and carbon is all your microbes and everything in there, you then blow air into the furnace and it just burns it all off into the atmosphere. And it turns from soil carbon into air carbon dioxide. And a bunch of people get all bent out of shape about how much carbon dioxide is in the air, right? It's really the toxins that are causing poisonous things and bad results, but they're all worried
28:48 about releasing the carbon, the CO2 into the air and it goes into the air and then the plants reabsorb it and put it back, but it takes the plants a while to reabsorb and put it back because it's such parts per million in the air. Um, and then you need it 10% in your soil, right? And so to put that back into the soil, the really only way to capture that carbon back is through plant material and putting it back in and micro bodies that are living in your soils and soil microbiome that brings the carbon out of the air into the soil. And that's what causes, you know, the
29:22 nutrients to cycle the plants to grow everything carbon in your soil is super important so if you're burning all that off by just fracking or cracking the soil then all that it's just like a furnace where it just goes and it all burns off real fast and faster than your plants can absorb it faster than anything and now it's in the air people they're all like you put carbon in there it's like yeah because tillage is actually you know people talk about other types of you know activities that put carbon in the air, but tillage is one of the worst, um, of doing it
29:59 because it's just huge areas. And then it's so hard to replenish back in there. Um, so, um, it doesn't take years to do it. What, what it takes is, um, what it, so this doesn't take years to do what it takes is persistent effort to do it. And and it's an exponential function. So the more you're applying microbes, the more microbes you're putting out there, the more you're increasing that exponentiality. And it can actually be done relatively quickly by following the natural farming principles, building soil foundation.
30:35 And then what I'm also talking about is these drilling things and making areas where it's like, okay, this is, this is easy. Um, and clay and all these things, all these soils can be rehabilitated. It's about aeration. It's about microbes. It's about getting their plants in there. It's about building the incentive for microbes to want to reach through the soil for plant roots to want to reach the soil. So all of these things, um, can be done. And, um, yeah. And as eyewitnesses saying persistent and intentional tending to the soil from a human can do wonders, right?
31:19 And that's what God said. God was like, man, you're in charge of this stuff. Don't mess it up. And it's going to be a lot of work. See ya. But yeah, working the soil, building the thing, you know, look at the terra preta that was put in, in South America. And these ideas of putting biochar into these tubes and all these things. Biochar absorbs any poisons that were put in the soil, buffers it, buffers nutrients, holds things. It's a storage. It's persistent long-term in your soil. Talk about stable soil carbon. It's biochar put into these columns mixed with compost, mixed with micros,
32:03 mixed with grass clippings, mixed with manures, mixed with everything in these columns. And now you're going to put the depth back in there. The roots are going to reach, they're going to move things around and it is going to add wonders to what you're doing. So that was the message I had for them. I taught them for a whole month here. You know, hopefully they're going to be learning a bit of this. We did soap. We did every solution. We burned bones together. We roasted eggshells. We, um, we fermented, we, we collected microbes. They collected microbes on their own. They had
32:35 probably a B grade collection. I was like, well, that's pretty good for their first time. And, you know, they didn't follow everything to the T because only one of them, there were three students, only one took notes. I'm like, you're taking a class, you're not even going to take notes. How the hell are you going to remember all this? Like I'm throwing just fire hoses stuff at you and just like tons of stuff. They're not even recording. It's like, bro, record it, video it. You know, I can tell you the lectures that I've heard from Master Cho talking, if I didn't record
33:03 it and watch it again and watch it like a dozen times, watch that, you know, I'm like half the views on my videos are from me watching it, right? If I didn't do that, I wouldn't have this knowledge of like, you got to watch it over and over and over and over again and get this, all this knowledge coming into you because once just hearing it and you're like, uh-huh. And it's just so overwhelming. It's like, yeah, it's so much knowledge. It's so much common sense. It's unlocking this part of your brain where you just feel like, oh yeah, it's common sense. I'll remember that. But will you?
33:31 because there's so much misinformation out there of like trying to understand these things, you know, what you're doing. It's like, I would take some notes or at least, um, record it so you can listen to it again, but whatever they didn't, you know, one did. Um, so we'll see. I think she's going to be the farm mom. That's going to coach the other guys and be like, come on guys. Um, but so much to know, hopefully. And, and I was telling them, you know, there's three levels of wisdom, three levels of knowing is a better way of saying it. We have,
34:01 manao, which is my opinion, man. There is noyao, which is knowledge. And there's ike, which is wisdom. And they are in this level here. Like I'm sharing my stuff, my manao, my, my stuff, but I'm also a lot of it's ike because I've practiced it for a heck of a long time. I know it to be true. It's like, it's just practice. And they're in the stage of noyao where they're getting all this knowledge, but then it's not ike, wisdom. They, they have to put it into practice and do it a thousand times and then it becomes EK. And so I'm throwing all this stuff at them.
34:36 They think they're going to remember, but that's a super noob, young person type of thing to do is just sit and not take notes when someone's a teacher and talking to you and telling you stuff. And you're just like, you think you're going to remember it, but, um, you know, the dabs may interfere with that. Just saying. Um, anyway, I'm not sure if they watch these episodes or they're going to be offended by things I say, but regardless, you know, if I haven't offended you, you haven't been listening to me long enough. Um, so anyway, with that, um, happy new year
35:09 and, uh, getting into the, what we want to get into. So if there's any questions, you know, drop them. I'll see what I can do. I did get a question coming into the email. I don't know. I'm not going to check it right now. I got to get better prepared here to really shift over to the podcast format where I just want to minimize the amount that I am jumping around from thing to thing, stuff to stuff. I want to keep it going one speed, which is forward and avoid the whole thing of where prior was just jumping around so much. Um, and yeah, so I want to make it a bit easier
35:48 for people to follow along and listen to this on multiple formats. Hopefully you get video, but audio as well, change it up, make it more available. So to start, to go back to where we were and always, you know, towards the end of the half of the show, um, I want to do this or have the bits of them open, but now we're looking at a video of a chicken farm. I believe I went over this thing pretty well. We're on video 6 of 10. So we, but I believe we watched this thing, but my notes say 6 here. Maybe we just started it, but I'm pretty sure we watched this. And let me switch
36:27 this up here because this is coming through a different speaker for you and put that through. Oh my gosh, blast ourselves out that way. Let us lower the volume here. so look at this beautiful breakfast in the morning yeah we watch this right this hey thank you for the super chat thank you thank you super chats keep this show going if you're not super chatting the show may stop a certain point it probably will but um but super chats help it keep going so we're gonna oh so this was where yeah this is where we kind of left off for sure and
37:04 this, we were at the chicken workshop and we were going to Muju County. So this is Master Lee here. Let's see, are we, we'll go at regular speed here. So we went to Muju. This is Master Lee. And I believe where we stopped off last time was he talked to us a bit. We rode through Muju. We heard some people summarize what we were doing, talk about the differences, but this is us arriving at Master Lee's farm here. He has a little chapel here on his farm. And then, um, over there is his greenhouses and around him is this whole thing. So he has a demonstration farm
37:43 in Muju, Korea. And, uh, had, I guess had, I'm not sure his wife's still doing it. Um, but he he's up in heaven now um and um let's see here so um so we arrive at his thing dr park's kind of explaining and then the first thing we ended up doing at this farm as we're going through is we entered into his greenhouse where these greenhouses he covers them with um tarp on top to keep them going. And then this is us looking at his microbe collection. So he does IMOs by bringing the leaf material and the leaf, the soil matter into his place versus putting the rice out
38:33 in the field. He brings it into his area because he's in Korea. It's super temperate. It gets really cold. And it's a little dark there. I'm not sure you can see that. But he's basically going to set up an IMO here for us. So we're going to take the, what he's doing here, let's see if we can zoom in on that. He's taking the rice and he's putting it into a box. Okay. So that's what he's doing. He's, you know, and we're going to be doing an IMO collection indoors because while we were here, I think it was early. I don't know, but you can see it's cold. Everyone's wearing jackets, It's hats.
39:11 It's cold. So we are making IMOs indoors. So he's going to put the rice into the basket. And they are. And then here, that's a wood box. And then also over there, there's a natural fiber woven box that he's adding the microbes to. Or excuse me, not the microbes, the rice. to create a box for the microbes to colonize. So you can see they're adding the rice to that one. It's nice hard-cooked rice, meaning that the rice was not cooked with the full amount of water. If you have four cups of rice, you would add three cups of water to it and hard-cook it. It's al dente rice, al dente rice.
39:58 So he's filling this up. You're going to fill it up two-thirds full because two-thirds is the golden ratio and the ratio of life, and it leaves an atmosphere for the microbes to be in. And here, you know, I hope Chuck watches one of these. And, you know, Stonemason, if you go work with Chuck, tell him this is how to do it. Show him this because he can do this indoors, you know. Oh, yeah, Mikey, we got some butt shots of Mikey there. Nice. We'll skip forward a little bit. See, because they're just piling the rice in. But they are filling it up two-thirds,
40:33 And most people think this was the failing that I just had with this class I taught where they thought, oh, yeah, we filled it up and they had way less than two thirds of rice. Literally fill your darn container up to where you think it's three quarters full because it'll settle a little bit. So and that's that was one of the reasons their collection was lower than it should have been was they didn't put enough rice in there. So there they are. They're adding more rice to this other basket because they thought it was full, but it wasn't. And you got to fill it up two thirds full.
41:07 And after that, they're going to take this rice. He's going to take a picture of it or look at it. Make sure it's, you know, nice. You don't want to contaminate this rice either. Notice they were using a paddle, not their hands. And the container bottom is this bottom of the container. I think that's what he was showing you. Let's actually go back a little bit and see. he's showing the container bottom is not this solid bottom. It's actually like a woven material. So it's a wood frame around it, but it's a woven material. And the whole reason is you want to have
41:37 it have direct contact with your soil or your microbes. Otherwise they're not going to crawl through there to get in there. They are very tiny, but still you can't have a solid bottom. You don't want to use plastic. You want to use these things again. Look, that's just like a tatami mat, like a woven mat. That is the bottom. That's like stapled on there. super pro tip, right? Don't make the bottom of your container wood. A lot of people, and then here he's using this natural woven thing. A lot of people will say, oh yeah, use cedar and then
42:09 drill holes in it. Yeah. Yeah. Just do what he's doing here. Trust me. This is the right way to do it. So he's talking a little bit more about that. I'm showing here now close the closeup. I'm going to pick up a bit of this. So it's not just leaves. This is a leaf mold. This is soil and leaves. This, when you go to grab this material, you are grabbing the leaves, the stuff, not just the leaf material, not just the leaf mold. That's actually soil that's been scraped out. And Rainbow Possum is saying she's had much better results with a basket. Absolutely. The basket is, you know,
42:49 I use a woven thing. Easter baskets work great where they're just woven really loosely together. You're just making a container to hold your rice in, kind of create an atmosphere and make it. So now he is going to be digging into the pile because you don't want to put this on the surface. I see people just put stuff on the surface. And again, even if you were out there, you're going to want to dig into what you're doing. And this is not just leaf mold. This is the dirt that's in that upper layer that's also under the leaf mold. You look at that, it's not just leaves. This is
43:22 dirt too. You see that dirt? This is the living layer of dirt on the top. There's actually more leaves in here than I would suggest, but he's digging down into it. The same if you're out in a natural environment. Don't just put the box on the surface. You must dig into it. If you look at my book, you will see it is in it. It's not just on the surface. Noob mistake to put it on the surface. Yay. What's up Renee? So they're digging in, they're digging in, they're making the IMO box. We're at master, master Lee's farm in Muju. We are learning hands-on experience of how to do
43:59 this. So they're digging into it, right? And the smell is of rich earth, rich earth, that smell that you want to have. That is the smell that comes off of this. So they're digging in, making a whole we're looking at the material it's not just leaves it is the soil it is that microbial layer that that rich soil that if your whole farm became this you would be like wow i have rich nice soil that's what they're digging into here and look at them smelling it oh yeah they're smelling because when you are there in person the tactile smells the tastes everything that's how
44:34 you know look at that chunk of stuff that is not just leaves that is soil and dirt that's what makes it chunky like that look at that chunk do you see mikey picking up that chunk in the lower left corner yeah that's what i'm talking about so there then can i go he's talking about this this is the microbes this is the things we're gonna dig into this obviously there's you know he's digging down almost to the bottom of this and look because it's cold, he's going to put literally like a foot to two feet of material on top of
45:09 this insulation, right? So he's talking a bit more about it. I'm sure they said some good things. You want to watch the full video, go for it. I'm going to skip ahead and they're going, it's sorry, it's kind of dark here. I, uh, I didn't adjust the brightness on this, but sometimes you can see it. But anyway, yada, yada, yada, talking, talking, talking. It's pretty much the same thing I'm saying, minus the Korean. Look, we're all clapping. That was great. Something good must have been said. But this here, let's see. Come on, come on, come on. That's what happens when
45:45 you watch a four-hour video as people just talk. But we're going to take the stuff at a certain point. Oh my gosh, I could have been fast forwarding. What are they talking about? I don't know anyone watched the full video I'm not sure but they're gonna take the things oh did they bury it already do we miss it I don't think so oh no master Cho has the thing now okay obviously it's not buried yet but he's talking about it so obviously there is a lot of detail of how and why and what you're doing to bury an IMO box it's not just like this simple thing it's like you really
46:20 got to understand it. So I'd recommend you watch this video. It's called Pure Calf Basic Poultry Training 6 of 10 and watch this and make sure you know what all the minutia was said. Let's listen in just a bit. Master Cho just said is the one when you squeeze the sugar cane, the original When you know sugar juice come out right? That is the molasses right? Cane juice? Cane juice? That is molasses. It doesn't give you a different juice. It doesn't give you a different juice.
47:08 When you do sugar juice, if you boil it, then the moisture goes away. That becomes brown sugar, right? Yeah. OK? So they're talking about sugar cane. I'm not sure this is relevant. So the most important thing is the sugar cane. So, I want you to try different kinds. So, sugar juice, and after you boil a little bit, we call it the molasses, or the solid brown sugar. So you try different original sugar, and then you will notice yourself which one is the best.
48:00 So apparently they're talking about the nuances in different types of sugar, which is also amazing. They have done this time, and they found the effect of the black pepper. water put it in liquid number uh liquid number two and then spray some of the people claim that's easier and faster yeah classic noobs thinking they're better than the master you know and uh
48:50 he'll tell you you're not So that is a lot of academicians will say, ah, this is a simpler way, an easier way, but that's not the real truth. You have to go through one, two, three, four process. So there you go. You know, anytime you make substitutions, you are going to get less than the way he talks about it. And how does he know the right way? man it's the mastership he's been doing this for you know 50 years and um
49:39 i told you the before So when you make a microorganism, normally we have a good microorganism and bad microorganism, and they're in between the neutralized microorganism. If the neutralized microorganism, if it's a good microorganism a lot, then they go after that. If it's a bad guy a lot, then you go the bad guys. So what you try to do is make a more good kind of microorganism,
50:27 so you can pull these neutral guys to your side. Actually, I already have talked about the I haven't done the course in the古人群 And you should watch the microbial theory video that I did on my channel because it talks about the neutral and the bad and all that in extensive detail But yeah, so every time you make substitutions you will change how it's done and you can do it because substitutions are necessary because you gotta substitute for what you have in your area Just realize you're fundamentally changing the whole method method. So, there's a lot of evidence that the evidence is in Japan.
51:04 The evidence is in the Okinawa, Masashima, and the people who use it. It's good to use it. So, it's a good evidence. So, it's a good evidence. I used to use the EMG for the Japanese religion. The religion? Yes, the religion. The religion. The religion. The religion. The religion. The religion. That's it. Yes, that's it. In Japan, there are some farmers who made this their own microorganism, the good time, and then it was good, strong.
51:50 So there's some academician, I forgot the name anyway, he used that one as effective microorganism. So he started using that microorganism. It was working good, strong. So he used that EM, effective microorganism, which is produced by the laboratory of Japan. You use that microorganism for the purpose of mission of the world's saviors. it's a it's it's one of the uh the religion christian religion that's a cult but it's one of the religion started using em effective microorganism that's the they use it as a mission
52:31 strategy the cult of q say um yeah so um yeah and i agree with using what's in your area but then also understanding why you're doing it and in korea we're in apple country right there muju apple country. And they ferment apples for certain things, but they also bring in sugar to do the microorganism process. So there's reasons to bring trade, trade your apples, trade apple cider vinegar, trade these things for places with sugar, bring them in or reduce the apples down to sugar. I'm sure you can make sugar from apples. And there's all kinds of reasons to use what you have
53:07 and use what you have around. But understand you could, you know, I think you could clearly do rice in Washington if you wanted to because they do it in Korea, which is a very similar client. But understanding why and what to substitute. So as I said, EM stands for the effective microorganism. So he's familiar with EM and all these other things. That really means EM is good for that particular area. But if you use that one, some other location, that's not good. Because the microorganism is a different kind there.
53:53 So understanding why, you know, indigenous microbes, indigenous materials, to do these things, understanding there's a big thing where sometimes I'm like indigenous, and other times I'm like import certain things. there's a whole spectrum of why and what and so understanding the deeper theory of what they're doing it's not like master cho's ignorant of things it's not like he doesn't know he does know and then he prescribes a certain way of doing it now this em is spread all over the southeast asia they're very popular they're they're using a lot through that particular religious group.
54:32 So, yeah, you know, certain things get popular. It's easy. Easy to do EM. It comes in a bottle. EM, EM microorganism was strong in Okinawa. But if you go to the main, Japan or some other part of the world, it's not as strong as Okinawa. So, yeah. So again, understanding the concepts, the indigenous here. You know, we said I was going to talk about animals, but we're talking mostly about microbes because that's what Master Cho's on right now. The microorganism is all different area indigenous. In the local area microorganism. So that's the thing.
55:14 The IMOs, you collect it where you're at, you use it where you're at. If you have a plant in the sand, you can find a plant in the sand of 200 meters. If you have a plant in 300 meters, you can find a plant in the sand. So when you try to get this indigenous microorganism, then if you have your own field, the farm field is about 200 meters above sea level, then you have to go 100 more, about 300 meters above the sea level, you collect a microorganism there, about 100 meters above. So again, there's a lot of subtlety to this, right? It's not just set a box out.
55:57 You actually collect higher altitude microbes, bring them down better. 200-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300-300 But what if you can't? Then don't, right? But this is ideal.
56:34 This is like, you know, when you're teaching, you're learning. It's like, this is the best way to do it. And if you can't do it the best way, you know, then do it the way you can. Don't let it stop you. That's why I'm not saying, you know, use what you have, but understand the difference of what you're doing, right? If something calls for flour and I use cornstarch, you know, you're going to have a difference. Understand why and what you would and why you can't just like willy-nilly substitute things. That's what I'm trying to say here.
57:00 But in a long time ago, there was a tradition or the fact is that the poor family has more children than rich family. And I don't feel like, you know, sometimes I feel like, oh, I'm not encouraging and I should just encourage and be like, no. or not say no, but you know, you gotta, you know, you gotta do what you, listen, listen, I mean, if you spent the time to listen to Master Cho, you would know this stuff and you'd know the reasons why.
57:45 So this, what I'm trying to say is, if you have over protection to give over protection of the children, then they don't thrive very well. a very tough or harsh if you give then they're stronger than the weaker one. So he's talking about not spoiling the children just like don't spoil your microbes. Get the tough ones, treat them harshly and they will thrive right. It's like the classic thing that good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times makes good men, good men make good times.
58:21 Now, we noticed that if you go to the mountain, there's some water area, and then some place, they don't have much moisture. If you plant the seeds, the water area, they grow really strong, I mean, tall and big, then the dry area, but their fruit is not very good compared to the dry area. They grow small, but the fruit is very good.
59:08 And again, this is like a classic thing. People want to see, oh, my tree grew really big. But the answer is the quality of fruit, right? The tree that grew up in a harsh environment, worse environment, gives better fruit. you know you shall know them by the vine yo like this is the classic thing it's not like just know them by the tree like know them by the fruit and fruit of the vine i think is what it is actually so understanding these concepts knowing natural farming things are growing you know it's like
59:36 it's about making it strong balanced so what i'm trying to say is when you collect this microorganism in the mountainous area try to collect a dry area instead of the too moist area yeah so collecting in a drier area makes sense right what he was saying and yeah uh uh thomas got it right you should know them by their fruits right so uh this is so when you try to collect a stronger microorganisms, consider these factors that I talked to you a little bit higher than what you try to farm in the dry area than moist area even if it's same location,
1:00:25 then that's the way you can collect the strongest microorganisms. So who knew this episode you'd learn all this stuff about IMOs and microbes, but here you are learning more yeah i said i was going to talk about animals here we are talking about micros man spending time with master joe it's like we're in korea one thing you should remember here is the why the microorganism will multiply because they wanted to have more children of them you see the their microorganism also make this next generation more number than their generation that's why poor people have more children than rich people right
1:01:15 it's just uh it's this classic thing like get the thing get the kids you know breed it's all it's a life it's just a fractal man just a fractal thank you for the super chat all one in the same and thank you for here tuning in we will tune back in next week and we'll see KNF podcast live every Sunday. Be here, be there, get it out, subscribe, like, share, do the good things you all do. Thanks everybody for tuning in from around the globe live here on YouTube. I appreciate you, appreciate Master Cho, everything you do. Looking forward to making a great 2025
1:01:55 and watching this together, explaining it, going through it, really bringing the commentary, the whole bits of all this love to you uh every sunday live um so anyway i will i'm gonna sign off for this week i hope you do good plant nice things be a great person enjoy um and i'll see you next week thank you bye