FAA (KNF Fuel), Water-Soluble Nutrients, Chick Feed Timing
This bonus session answers four questions from Michael in North Carolina. First, fish amino acid, which Drake calls KNF Fuel, is not in Master Cho's original IMO formulas, but can be added to IMO4 at 1:1000 if a pile is slow to heat. Drake warns against using it to prime hard-cooked rice for IMO1, since that risks catching the wrong microbes. He also covers water-soluble potassium and water-soluble phosphoric acid, advanced recipes outside the nine core solutions: WPA supports flowering and the changeover period, WK supports ripening and fruiting, but both can cause imbalance if used before the basics are mastered.
Next, Jadam anaerobic solutions like Jadam Microbial Solution and Jadam Liquid Fertilizer are compatible with IMO4 and IMO5. Drake suggests starting with Jadam's simpler recipes, especially for tomatoes, then working up to Master Cho's more refined ferments. He also discusses purple non-sulfur bacteria, which show up naturally in good KNF but get outcompeted by IMO if relied on as a primary microbe.
For Hamad's chicken question, Drake lays out a feeding schedule for day-old layer chicks: brown rice from day 0 to 21, shredded boiled egg from day 4 to 10, and finely chopped bamboo leaves from day 4 to 21, with feed increasing after day 11.
Finally, biochar works best added at IMO4 or IMO5, charged or not, since microbes colonize it themselves. An IMO pile needs no rest beyond cooling before the next stage, usually seven to ten days. Raw horse manure is fine for IMO5, but Drake suggests letting it ferment a little first and watching for dewormers, which can kill off nematodes.
Questions answered
- 1:10 What is the role of fish amino acid (FAA) in IMO, and should it be added to IMO4? — Master Cho doesn't put FAA in his original formulas, but Drake calls it KNF Fuel and says add it at 1:1000 if an IMO4 pile is slow to heat.
- 4:15 Should FAA be used to prime the hard-cooked rice for IMO1? — No, Drake advises against it since the rice is already less nutritious and you want to be careful which microbes you catch.
- 4:55 What are water-soluble potassium (WK) and water-soluble phosphoric acid (WPA), and are they worth using? — They're advanced Master Cho recipes outside the nine core solutions, useful once you've mastered the basics but able to cause imbalance if misused.
- 5:37 When specifically are WK and WPA used in nutrient theory? — WPA helps in the flowering and changeover period, and WK is used in the ripening phase once plants are fruiting.
- 7:58 Are Jadam-style anaerobes like Jadam Microbial Solution and Jadam Liquid Fertilizer compatible with IMO4 and IMO5, especially for tomatoes? — Yes, Drake says start with Jadam's simpler solutions, then graduate to Master Cho's more refined recipes.
- 9:42 Do photosynthetic microbes, purple non-sulfur bacteria, have a role in KNF? — They show up naturally as a byproduct of good KNF, but IMO will outcompete them if used as a primary microbe.
- 11:25 What should you feed layer chicks from day one, and when do you start starter feed? — Feed brown rice from day 0 to 21, shredded boiled egg from day 4 to 10, and chopped bamboo leaves from day 4 to 21, increasing feed after day 11.
- 14:05 How should biochar be added during IMO3 through IMO5, and does charging it matter? — Add it at IMO4 or IMO5 so microbes can colonize it, and charged or uncharged doesn't matter much.
- 16:04 How much time does an IMO pile need to rest before the next stage? — None beyond cooling down, then move straight to the next stage, usually seven to ten days per stage.
- 16:35 How raw or fresh can manure be for IMO5? — Raw is fine, but let it ferment a little first, and watch for dewormers in stable manure, which can kill your nematodes.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 Intro and welcome
- 0:40 Michael in NC's questions
- 1:10 FAA (KNF Fuel) in IMO
- 4:15 FAA and rice for IMO1 - discouraged
- 4:55 WK and WPA are not part of the nine core solutions
- 5:37 WK and WPA in nutrient theory
- 6:20 Master the basics before going advanced
- 7:58 Jadam anaerobes with IMO4/5, tomatoes
- 9:42 Purple non-sulfur bacteria and KNF
- 11:25 Feeding layer chicks from day one
- 14:05 Biochar and making IMO
- 16:04 IMO pile rest time
- 16:35 Raw manure for IMO5
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
0:00 Hey, so you're actually Friday night and doing a little bit of extra bonus because I didn't get to this question the other day. And I got a question from Michael here on Facebook. And he was thanking me so much for getting him into KNF and helping him share the love in North Carolina, getting the tomatoes
0:51 together, which it's always, it's always great to see, you know, people around the country, around the world getting into KNF. But got four questions here from Michael. So I wanted to jump into those and just as a little bonus session, get you these answers this week. So he's asking, what is the role of fish amino acids in IMO? And he's saying that fish amino acid is not mentioned as a component in the soil formulation in the KNF app, nor does Chris Trump list FAA in his IMO videos. However, he has seen FAA listed as a component in the IMO solution from other KNF
1:33 practitioners. In his experience so far, his IMO 3 piles tend to heat up faster, stay hotter longer than his IMO 4 and 5 piles. My feeling is that FAA could be incorporated into IMO 4, and he's also curious if FAA could be used to prime the hard-cooked rice for IMO-1. So to answer that, I haven't Master Cho's original formulas. Those things you mentioned in the app are directly from Master Han Kyu Cho and so he does not recommend putting FAA in the beginning. Now, I have a caveat to that and it depends because Master Cho is using rice mill run.
2:22 And here in America, we kind of switch that to wheat mill run and or sometimes I do my substrate being dog food and wood chips. And sometimes I use horse feed. I use a bunch of different things to make my medium up to make my IMO 3. So it depends a lot on what you're using. Now, FAA, I call it KNF fuel, and the reason is that it adds fuel to the fire. So like you say, if you do add it into IMO4, if you're not getting these cook-off conditions where it seems a little laggy and it seems like you're burning a fire there, but it's not quite getting to the heats and the things you want,
3:06 then yeah, go ahead and add fish amino acid in at 1 to 1,000. Add some of that KNF fuel. add that stuff that's going to kick off your IMO pile because you do want to get those to a certain amount of heat. And what the fuel, the KNF fuel that FAA provides is that DNA for that rapid microbial boost and to grow. So do add that in if you feel that it's called for. It's not standardly called for because of the ingredients we're using tend to be rich already and have that fuel that they need. And one thing to be careful of is, you know, if you add too much
3:46 fuel to a fire and it blows up in your face and overheats and cooks off too fast, it could be something that causes problems for you. So do be careful with adding fish amino acid in, but if you feel like your piles need it, go for it. You know, it's not something that I'm discouraging, I'm just encouraging to be careful while doing it. And then your other, the last bit of this question you're asking, should the IMO be used or should FAA be used to prime the hard cooked rice for IMO1? And that's something I'd highly discourage. You don't really want to have these huge, like,
4:27 you don't want to mess with that process. Actually having the rice is less nutritious than other things and having that less nutritious starch, just starch available, you really want to be careful on what microbes you're catching and how you're doing it. So I'd advise against putting the FAA into your hard-cooked rice to collect IMO1. So second question you got, Michael, here is what are your thoughts on water-soluble potassium, WK, and water-soluble phosphoric acid, WPA? They're mentioned in Master Cho's books but are not widely talked about.
5:07 And he says he has the materials nearby to make both solutions. So as Johnny answered here in the Facebook question where this was asked, that the water-soluble potassium and water-soluble phosphoric acid are not part of the nine core solutions because they're more advanced natural farming recipes. recipes now however if you do go into master cho's advanced studies and you start to get into nutrient theory you will find that they are mentioned there and they're used very specifically to assist in both the the water soluble phosphoric acid helps in the flowering period and the
5:50 differentiation what master cho would call the changeover period and then the water soluble potassium is used in the ripening phase and also once your plants are fruiting. However, these two things, if you're using good fish amino acids, or excuse me, if you're using good fermented plant juices, you're using good KNF foods, a lot of these are already incorporated in. And adding them specifically is, you know, once if you've mastered the basics and you're already doing the basics and you're already getting amazing results with KNF and the nine core solutions and those
6:28 combined into the seven common formulas, then go ahead and you want to take to the next level then get into the water-soluble potassium, water-soluble phosphoric acid. A lot of the reasons and the times I don't talk about it is because that a lot of times most people aren't even up to the basics and wanting to make it so that you're covering your bases, you're getting the basic things down. And if you're doing that and you're already thriving, then yeah, sure, go ahead and mix these things in. But it's one more thing for most people to make. It's one more complexity.
7:03 And the other thing is that once you start adding in the water-soluble phosphoric acid and the water-soluble potassium, is you can then start to cause imbalance. And so a lot of times I talk about natural farming, I talk about the balance, talk about bringing these things in. And just these other solutions, they're great when you know how to use them. And when you're at that level and you're ready and you can do it, do it. But they can cause problems. So if you're using them incorrectly, they can cause more problems than they help with typically.
7:38 So just again, just like I was talking in the previous recipe, use your discretion and bring those things in as an advanced practitioner. But be careful that you don't overdo it and cause problems, just like the FAA could cause problems. So the third question here, are Jadam-style anaerobes compatible with IMO 4-5? I'm specifically thinking of Jadam microbe solution with tomato. and Jadam Liquid Fertilizer? So this is a great question. A lot of people often want to say, are the nine core solutions and the Jadam microbial solutions for Master Cho's son,
8:22 are they compatible? A lot of them, what I say is use the Jadam microbe solutions to get started. they're simple they're easy and they're kind of disgusting but be careful you know what you're growing when you use them when you spray and eventually graduate up to master cho you know young song cho is kind of like you know he describes himself as pop music whereas master cho is more harmonious like a symphony and so they're both music they can both get things done but try to you know if you can work your way up to master cho's recipes do those things they're
9:05 much more sophisticated much more cultured much more compatible with everything we're doing so not to say they're incompatible but i usually start with master or with cho young song with the jadam solutions on things that i'm starting fresh and then try to get to master cho's by making teas these ferments, these things that are much more refined. So hopefully that works, helps you out. Young Song Cho is very approachable, whereas Master Cho is much more complex to get there. So the fourth question here is, do photosynthetic microbes, purple non-sulfur bacteria, have a
9:47 role in KNF or natural farming in general? And in the last office hours, I was talking about EM, I was talking about yeast. I was talking about lactobacillus. I did not talk about purple non-sulfur bacteria, but those are pretty easy to culture. Taking water from like a lake, a pond, or, you know, even a puddle, and then starting to culture those, you can get purple non-sulfur bacteria to grow. Do they have a role in natural farming in particular? um you know they they tend to be almost present if you're doing good knf one thing that can be
10:26 problematic is if you're using things like em or you're using purple non-sulfur bacteria specifically is those take food from your indigenous microbes they also can um take um you know it's kind of overkill in a lot of ways they're they're good in em they're you know they've been cultured that way. But do they have a specific role? You know, they're in your environment. So if you're doing KNF, you're going to have these guys. They're more of like a byproduct than they are of a primary thing. And if you're trying to put them there as a primary thing,
11:00 the IMO are going to outcompete them in the long run. So you're, you know, you're always going to have to apply them. Not to say they don't have a place. I love EM. It's good stuff. But I try to go with the indigenous microbes and these these sort of collections as as what I'm trying to achieve in the end result so had another question here from Hamad and he's saying he's asking about what to feed layer chickens from the day old chicks and when do we start to feed them starter feed is that at day 10 since the first 10 days they eat brown rice and so I want to answer this
11:41 question here. I've actually been working on this a lot going through if you watch my advanced chicken videos, but the brown rice is from day zero to day 21. Okay. Then on day four, you want to start introducing shredded boiled eggs. So that's boil an entire egg and then run it through like a cheese grater or a sieve to make it really, really, really fine particles. And you introduce that to the chickens from day four to day 10. Then after that, and at that point, you start to introduce the feed to them, but very small quantities. Then from day four to day 21,
12:30 you're also going to start introducing finely chopped bamboo leaves. So the feeding for them, you want to, by day 11, you really want to start increasing your feed for them because you're no longer going to have that egg, that shredded egg for them. So it may seem a little bit complex, but basically you give them brown rice from day 0 to 21, then small egg from day 4 to 10, and then the bamboo from day 4 to 21, okay? And then the food is just introduced to them slowly. If you watch my advanced chicken feed, you'll see we go into the chicken, the raising the baby chicks,
13:16 and they get this feed. So hopefully I'll have that more clear in an infographic, and I'm working a lot on the chickens right now. If you just saw my feeder video come out and been trying to get more of this word out because I realized how vital it is to do livestock, especially for myself. I've been raising chickens for almost a decade now. And when you do these types of feedings, the chicks come out strong. They also develop really strong intestines. They get more feed out of it in the long run. And you also tune them to eat wild grass,
13:50 which is just a vital component of Korean natural farming and can save you a lot of cost in the long run. So switch back here. Got a couple more questions from Michael. And then, so he's asking, how can biochar be optimized during the IMO 3 through 5 process? He started adding uncharged biochar doing the IMO 4 stage? Can it be used effectively with IMO 3 or 5? And does charging it before mixing it matter at all? So adding biochar in during the 4 stage, the 5 stage, those are great times to do it. If you add just a tiny bit during the 3, it's okay, but you're
14:35 really trying to propagate these microbes versus giving them a home. Adding it into the 4 stage, you're going to allow the microbes to really colonize that. That's when you're mixing in with the soil, you're going to get even better results. It doesn't matter if it's charged or uncharged. To a degree, you can mess with that. I typically almost always use fresh biochar when I'm doing it because the microbes themselves are charging it. And if I add too many nutrients during that phase, I'm going to kind of mess up how my microbes are growing. Really remember that during the IMO 3,
15:11 1 through 4, you're really focused on the microbes. At 5 is when you're interested in more of this nutrition. And all those names, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, I find to be extremely confusing. So I call IMO 1 seed IMO. IMO 2 is also the preserved seed IMO. 3, you're doing an activation step, or excuse me, three, you're propagating these microbes up a whole bunch, four, you're activating them to your soil, and five would be a fermented mixed compost. So even for myself, it's kind of confusing, all these numbers, all these numbers, all these acronyms. It can be one of the struggling points with KNF.
15:49 So just trying to think of it this way, that when you're building a compost IMO, which is what the show will call IMO 5 in addition to other things, that's when you're going to want to add in biochar and have it matter. um so next kind of question here how much time if any does the IMO pile need to rest before continuing the process the IMO pile just needs to cool down just needs to finish its stage to go on to the next stage you don't need to let it rest um so for me my piles take between seven to ten
16:21 days you can immediately go to your next stage as soon as it's starting to cool down um and that's what you said you do, and that you're exactly right here. And then the last little bit of this is how raw or fresh can manure be for IMO5? I use horse manure from a local stable that mixes their manure with fine wood shavings. By the time I use the manure, it has broken down quite a bit, in your opinion, which is more optimal. That manure as it sounds is fine. You're just wanting to get the nitrogen factor out of it. And since it's mixed with wood chips, it's already the carbon nitrogen,
17:04 so it's already starting to ferment. One thing to be careful on getting manures from stables is sometimes they use a lot of dewormers. So be careful they're not deworming and killing your nematodes off. So it's best to let it ferment a little bit, let it compost. It's probably better that it's waiting a little bit. the horse manure is great to use somewhat you know fresh as you can you don't want it to be wet with too much moisture content in there but it sounds like what you're doing is great so thanks Michael
17:39 for for these questions hope this helps you out Hamoud I'm going to post this to the Facebook hope all you guys saw this and if you enjoy it check out the office hours I'll get be back Sunday my usual time 9 a.m hawaiian standard time and uh yeah hope hope to help you guys out and continue to help all of us with natural farming so aloha