Cannabis KNF, IMO4 Winter Storage, FAA Without IMO4
Three graduates from Drake's January farm training joined the show: Don "Iceman" McNamara and Donna Rae from Homer, Alaska, and Hope Barajas from California. They talked about IMO3 and IMO4 heating up during the class, and why the animals on the farm don't smell. Hope said the pigs' calm temperament proves the microbes are in balance. On black plastic row covers, they said IMOs go under the fabric before it's laid, and cores of fish and microbes get augered next to the rows so roots can reach past the plastic.
Hope talked through applying KNF to cannabis: fermenting flower trimmings and leaf biomass back into fermented plant juice to match each growth stage's nutrient needs, and using strong microorganisms against powdery mildew. Asked what one KNF product to show a beginner, Hope picked LAB for its many uses, while Don and Donna Rae picked FPJ for being fast and easy. Don also gave a soap recipe for spider mites, made by boiling a plant like basil or peppermint and adding it to natural soap.
On winter storage, Drake said IMO4 in its spore form can survive freezing if you feed it food, minerals, and humic-fulvic acids before using it in spring. For growers who can't source Angelica for OHN, Don pointed to Mountain Rose Herbs, and Drake said to follow the book while testing local substitutes over time. For Alaska fermented plant juice, Don listed horsetail for silica, comfrey for potassium and phosphorus, and stinging nettle for nitrogen and boron.
Drake said his own LAB batch turned out like yogurt instead of separating into curds and whey, a sign that Bacillus subtilis and other IMOs had grown strong enough to outcompete the lactic acid bacteria. On fish amino acid, Suze said you can make it without IMO4 - it's just fish waste and sugar, and enough sugar alone keeps out bad bacteria. Donna Rae said to layer brown sugar evenly through the bucket, starting with a layer on the very bottom.
Questions answered
- 13:06 Did you hug the pigs? — Hope says the pigs' sweet, calm temperament shows the whole ecosystem's microorganisms are in balance.
- 14:35 What effect do black plastic row covers have on IMO? — They bury IMOs under the fabric before laying it, and auger fish-and-microbe cores next to the row so roots reach past the plastic.
- 18:47 How has KNF affected your life? — Drake says KNF gives him the tools to feel personally empowered to fix problems on the land, not just theory from a book.
- 25:18 What kind of farm, garden, or orchard do you have back home? — Donna Rae runs a 5-acre market farm in Homer, Alaska with fruit trees, berries, chickens, ducks, turkeys, and a Bionutrient Food Association meter.
- 37:09 Could you talk about applying KNF to cannabis? — Hope ferments flower trimmings and leaf biomass into fermented plant juice to match the plant's nutrient needs at each growth stage.
- 41:28 If you had to show one KNF product to a beginner, what would it be? — Hope picks LAB for its many uses; Don and Donna Rae pick FPJ for being quick, easy, and fast to show results.
- 42:44 What do you use for spider mites? — Don boils a plant like basil or peppermint, adds it to natural soap, then dilutes it into a spray.
- 46:33 Should IMO4 be stored where it won't freeze? — Drake says avoid extreme exposure, but IMO4 in spore form holds up to freezing if it's fed food, minerals, and humic-fulvic acids before spring use.
- 50:27 Can I make IMO without OHN if I can't source Angelica? — Don points to Mountain Rose Herbs for ingredients, and Drake says follow the book while gradually testing local substitutes.
- 54:03 What plants make good fermented plant juice up in Alaska? — Don lists horsetail for silica, comfrey for potassium and phosphorus, and stinging nettle for nitrogen and boron.
- 55:46 What's the balance between lactic acid bacteria and aerobic IMO microbes? — Drake says his own LAB batch turned to yogurt because Bacillus subtilis and other IMOs had gotten strong enough to outcompete it.
- 58:58 Can you make FAA without IMO4? — Suze says yes - fish amino acid is just fish waste and sugar, and enough sugar alone keeps out bad bacteria.
- 1:01:15 How do you layer an FAA bucket to avoid rot? — Donna Rae layers brown sugar evenly with the fish, starting with a layer of sugar at the very bottom of the bucket.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 Intro and welcome
- 1:34 I Ching reading: The Well
- 4:36 Meeting the KNF farm training students
- 13:06 Did you hug the pigs?
- 14:35 Black plastic row covers and IMO
- 18:47 How KNF changes your life
- 25:18 Farms back home: an Alaska market farm
- 32:56 Aspirations after the class
- 37:09 Applying KNF to cannabis
- 41:28 One KNF product to show a beginner
- 42:44 KNF soap for spider mites
- 46:33 Storing IMO4 through a freeze
- 50:27 Making IMO without OHN
- 54:03 Fermented plant juice plants for Alaska
- 55:46 Balance of LAB and IMO microbes
- 58:58 Making FAA without IMO4
- 1:02:00 Closing and thanks
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
3:00 Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello. Hello.
10:30 so hey so good morning um welcome to the office hour this morning um for january 16th um 2022 and today um got some special guests here with me um are my students that have come from all over the world to learn korean natural farming so today um can feature them a little bit and ask
11:17 some questions to them see how they fare on on our questions um but today i wanted to start with Just reading the I Ching here and outside today. Good airflow for all of us to be here today. So today is Ching or the well. And it says return to the well of goodness. And no community can survive without a dependable source of pure water. In a similar way, human beings cannot survive without a reliable source of spiritual nourishment. In fact, we need two wells. an external source of guidance, such as the I Ching, and an internal source of guidance, which must be our own good character.
12:06 This hexagram comes to encourage you to concentrate on developing and purifying and utilizing your two wells. Notice the name of the I Ching, the name of this hexagram, Ching, the well, in the I Ching has survived for countless civilizations for thousands of years for a simple reason. It's an inexhaustible source of spiritual nourishment. It provides us with the fundamental building blocks of a successful life. If you approach it sincerely without mistrust or frivolity, it will guide you through every difficult hour with unimpeachable wisdom.
12:45 If you muddy the well, however, by doubting the I Ching or by placing your ego desires above the counsel it gives you, you impede your own progress. The purest of external wells, the I Ching, is also an invaluable aid in developing and cleansing the internal well of your own good character. it will if you are sincere reveal to you the fundamental issues of your life and it will instill in you the values necessary to successfully negotiate those issues the hexagram ching comes to encourage you not to muddy the well of your good character in any way
13:29 now in relating to others look beyond any external faults or muddiness and acknowledge that a clear well exists inside somewhere inside them no person is without this and by speaking to it you strengthen it if you will follow these counsels you will meet with true and lasting success so trying to develop our character here once you guys come over and I wanna introduce you guys here let's see here so here
14:19 um so this is the Iceman coming down from Homer, Alaska and this is Hope coming in from California and a wild adventure in the natural farming realm so looking forward to tuning in to you guys today So if you guys want to start just like a little bit talking about your experience here and what you've learned. What I'd like to say first is it's 10 minutes to the surf spot.
15:07 I caught eight waves this morning and stopped at the farmer's market on the way back to the farm and picked up some big old fat avocados that were the size of softballs. And so avocado and eggs on toast for breakfast. And now we're talking to you all. And we've been practicing for a year now, KNF, and it's really good to come and see everything in action, get the fat skinny of the plants figured out so we know when to apply which solution.
15:36 And just to see, we made all the solutions this week, so we're pretty stoked to get the right how-tos going because you can look at the book, but seeing it in real life is a lot different. And so if anybody's out there that's thinking they want to come, I think there's a little room in next month's class that would just be super. 65 degrees when we woke up this morning, a volcano behind us with snow on top and a couple of observatories. And we're overlooking the Pacific Ocean. It doesn't get much better than this.
16:07 yeah um i think in all this experience is um pretty encompassing when it comes to the a to z one two three all five senses environment mind body soul um this experience here is much more in depth than I think anyone would really perceive from from the outside I had an idea of what to expect but um actually being here it's it's um yeah we we kind of highlighted last night this has just been such an evolutionary experience personally um I'm sure
16:55 you know for for Iceman and Donna as well um my intro to KNF was uh back in 2017 um by students and friends of Drake's so kind of that full circle effect of um this network that we're building uh is is is pretty empowering in itself and feeling that connectivity and really identifying with the depths of which this experience can transcend. You know, we've got Iceman and Donna from Alaska. I'm coming from California, the mainland, and then, you know, we're down here on the
17:42 islands, and that in itself is three completely different bioregions of the same country. And, you know, we all travel and this is just a really empowering way to get these practices out there and the different ways that we all obtain this information and the different ways that we'll all teach and share this information. so let me let me ask you in terms of when you um were thinking about coming here your confidence level with natural farming and then now kind of after taking this course and seeing um how do you how do you feel um night and day definitely um something about seeing it in action
18:32 and that like I said the A to Z I have practiced KNF on small scale I've dreamed of applying it to a larger scale and really having that hands-on experience the the taste testing that having the different gauges has just increased the spectrum and understanding of the practical approach the realistic applications, doing it, you know, feeding the pineapple, feeding the papaya. Yesterday, we were applying the soil regiment to the fields and spreading our adapted IMOs to
19:22 to the land and somehow mother earth knew to rain right afterwards to kind of assist us and um get get those microbes in and uh kind of kind of get that more uh um get that application uh applied naturally in that way spread naturally so those kind of experiences just don't compare you know your own experience is yours but when your experiencing it with others and really doing it together you've got everyone's dynamic approach and understanding to compare and contrast to and obviously having a solid mentor who is so practiced in in these ways this
20:09 confidence building in itself so putting kind of you know I have been so what's the word I'm looking for? Empowered and just this type of farming has been admirable to me for years now. And yeah, just being a part of it and having that gauge now to really know if I'm doing it correctly is, yeah, just a world's difference than where I was right before this experience. So, yeah, definitely confidence building, to say the least.
20:56 So, yeah, and Donna Rae just joined us here as well. Do you want to share a little bit about how this week went for you? Hi. Yes. Iceman's my partner, and we've been starting to do Korean natural farming for a little while now, but it was really great to be here and have the experience and wisdom of Drake to help us understand what we're doing really well and what we might do better and to really make the potions with him, if you will. And then to taste his, and Don brought some of ours to try, and that was really cool. And so we could see how our different IMOs worked
21:37 and how our different fermented plant juices were and things like that. How did we do, Greg? Yeah, and so Don did bring up a whole bunch of solutions. and so far so good. I think almost all of them were A+. I think one of them, the structure, both of our batches that we just made this past, our last most recent batches, I think we needed to put a little bit more bones in each of them. When we went to test it, we had our batches sitting there, and we dropped in some more bones, and they immediately started bubbling. And when we tasted it, it was kind of a...
22:15 still face a vinegary bite. Yeah, still a vinegary bite, so learning to go and definitely it's helpful to learn from our mistakes as well as our successes here and to be able to have that experience to be able to see what's good, what's not good, and then figure out how to improve from there. Yeah, and Drake and Suze haven't missed a step. They've been just such fantastic hosts and teachers for us. We appreciate the accommodations are wonderful. The place is beautiful. The pigs are wonderful. The chickens are really fun. Everybody has been really cooperative.
22:58 So we're hoping that we're feeding the plants and doing good work here too. okay so eyewitness has a question for you did you hug the pigs um we we we got very close actually i wanted to kind of touch on on that realistic experience um just very impressed with um the like the little things like like the temperament of the animals You know, probably the sweetest, largest pigs I've ever had the opportunity to be so close to. And I think that just really highlights the balance in this operation and the balance in this ecosystem on this land.
23:46 Just, yeah, the temperament in the animals itself is just a really relevant observation. to see the larger organisms proving that the microorganisms are all in balance there. Yeah, I would add, if you really didn't believe it before, it really is no-smell pigs and no-smell chickens and a lot of good techniques. We raise chickens and they're pretty good, but this is really, the Korean Natural Farming Way has added some enhancements to what we'll be doing with our chickens in the future. But even the boar, who has pretty good-sized teeth now,
24:24 he was really friendly and sweet too so they're happy animals and I think doing really well with the IMOs so there's a question for you guys to test your your knowledge on this um and to hear your feedback now after learning so stonemason is asking what effect does black plastic row covers have on IMO? That's a good question. It is, yeah. I'd say we visited Drake's dad's yard and he's doing that very exact same thing and he's adding the IMOs underneath the fabric
25:10 before he covers it and some mulch on top as nature would do. So I hope that helped your question. The plants all look fantastic. Yeah, and in some cases, we took and put some, the fish amino acids, we drilled into the ground and put in sort of cores outside of the black plastic row cover and into the sort of lawn or row between. and so made cores of those for those plants to then run their roots and have the funguses help carry that nutrient to the plants too. So it doesn't seem to inhibit growth.
25:58 Yeah, and giving, so my dad has the black plastic under some pineapples, which are very hard to weed. So he's using it in a place where it's extreme labor savings for him. And I think the cost benefit of looking at it, of, you know, laying down the black plastic to save yourself a whole bunch of time and ultimately kind of energy in a certain sense. I'm not sure how much energy it took to manufacture the black plastic.
26:28 But like Donna Rae was saying, what we're doing in addition to that is right next to the pineapple row, we're digging a hole, augering a hole, and we filled it with fish and microbes. and that's encouraging the roots to reach out beyond the black plastic the black plastic's only like two feet you know from where the pineapples planted those roots could go way further than two feet i would think and when we encourage it by putting the microbes and and drilling into this that heavy clay soil uh it it gives the impetus that those plants are like
27:07 hey, I'm not going to stay in this black plastic. And I bet you if you dig down, a lot of them are shooting over and out and away. And it is definitely raising the temperature. But I didn't see any adverse effects to it. No, not at all. And just to kind of piggyback off what both of you said, in reality, the microorganisms aren't directly under that plastic. We're really encouraging that root growth and those microorganisms that we have adapted to the soil that comes from this land. You know, we're adding those adapted microorganisms so that they can teach the microbes that are
27:56 present in those areas to reach out and, you know, learn from each other and feeding them at you know such a distance encourages that root growth and those roots going farther only draws in more organisms to those areas and encourages that that um that more lateral growth and health in the plant so um yeah i've definitely i'm not seeing like a you know disadvantage in using that if anything it's advantageous especially on a smaller operation where you know having um labor to maintenance the weeds and all those different elements that are intensive you know when that's
28:35 not available I see it being more sustainable to yeah alleviate those needs so there's a question here for you guys I think more philosophical but they they're interested in how KNF has affected your life. So I think it takes a while for the soil microbes to get growing and so I think it's going to take a little time to see action in our small-scale market farm but we're excited to feed the exudates right back to the plants that they that we took off them and taken a shortcut so
29:25 through the system? That is a big question because there are a lot of answers to it for myself personally. I think initially my introduction to Korean natural farming, it was in my own pursuit of self-teaching and knowledge and practices that made more sense. I have a several-year commercial farming background in cannabis and food production. And having that background and experience and seeing my evolution in that and the consciousness and sustainability that has increased over time, these practices, this application, this lifestyle is just that much
30:17 more aligned with closing every loop in your system, being that much more conscious on inputs, being that much more conscious on carbon footprint and yeah how to how to minimize those kinds of things and you know essentially give back more than what I'm taking from from the earth and for myself I feel you know these inputs that we're creating these solutions to better the the health of the soil and and the plants and essentially, you know, enhance our ecosystems on our farms and these places that we live, that's all going to transcend to myself and my body.
31:01 You know, we get one earth and we get one body. And a lot of these inputs, you know, these solutions, like the medicine, you know, that's something you can take yourself. It's so vital to understand just the nutrient density and the profiles of what we consume and in turn, you know, what we're putting into the earth. So, yeah, it's refined my consciousness and, yeah, it makes me a better human. Yeah, I hope it's made me a better human, too. obviously Master Sho has always taught about the power of observation and keeping an empty mind and
31:46 I think going into that and holding that while we do things and really noticing life around us is really inspiring. Korean natural farming has helped us in lots of ways. These last couple years in particular have been really challenging on the planet between COVID and all the global climate change and in Alaska it's super apparent. A lot of times we're not getting to be with people as much as we normally are in community. A lot of times we're seeing a lot of the effects of global warming. We work with some of the villages up there to create small farms and sustainable ones
32:22 where the supply chain isn't going to affect them as much and boy Korean natural farming allows so many inputs from their own environment to be used right there. And so it's really hopeful and exciting to share the ways to do that and to have them have really great nutritious plants available in their community to eat. It gives me hope and inspiration. And I appreciate that. My spirit appreciates that. And I would answer that in terms of how Korean natural farming has affected my life. I would say it's in like every facet, like every, everywhere I look, I, my microbiome's probably
33:03 better. I'm probably off-gassing more KNF. I'm eating it. I'm drinking it. I live in it daily, go up to my animals. Um, but to, to be relevant here, I, with this class, especially, um, the, these guys are so well-educated in terms of like, um, I think they know Jeff Lowenfels or like have, have met him personally who wrote um teaming with microbes teaming with fungi teaming with nutrients all those great books and i really feel like knf has um given me solutions because if you if you read a book like that like jeff lohenfels where it's like we you know you find out how important
33:44 the soil food web is the microbiome all these things and you're left with just like this like like need like kind of like oh we we should do something about this but i really feel like in my life specifically knf gives me the tools to then feel empowered to feel personally um confident that i can take those great principles that these people have outlined and then have the tools to be able to be like make a difference and to see and to take all this great theory which is sort of mystical and magical because it's so tiny or hard to study or so subtle in these ways.
34:29 But then to apply these recipes that are like a cooking book to the land and then see all of a sudden mycelial blooms and seeing compost piles decay faster, seeing all these dots be connected and i really feel like knf has affected my life by being um the tools to accomplish and get to a world that i know that i want to live in and be part of so does that i mean that kind of resonates with you guys yeah there's no planet b so get busy here yeah no no planet b so So there's a question here of, you know, what kind of farm garden orchard do you have back home?
35:26 Dawn and I have a small market farm up in Homer, Alaska. It's about five acres or so. And we raise and we also have some fruit trees off site as well. But we have fruit trees. We have basic sort of wide, diverse market garden for vegetables and berries. We have a little honesty box farm stand, and we also sell through a food hub. But we just grow sustainably, of course, and no synthetics and more and more K&F as we learn. What else would you add to that? We have some chickens and ducks, and we raise some roasting chickens during the summer, just during the season,
36:03 and turkeys for Thanksgiving week harvest and serve our community. So we're looking to serve local people fresh, nutritious food. And one of the cool things we've been doing this week, I'll just mention, is Drake showed us the Bionutrient Food Association's meter that tests out. I'll let you guys talk more about it, but it was really cool. and it tests sort of beyond the bricks on the nutrition of different vegetables. And so if you want to speak to that, Dr. Drake? Yeah, well, and I would also mention for them, you know, they're growing in high tunnels,
36:45 and every time they mention another crop they have growing, I'm just like, well, you guys are amazing. It's like talking about the asparagus, talking about just, you know, strawberries, everything just, yeah. These guys are doing it right. And we do some Alaska certified seed potatoes and some grapes and hops and a little bit of everything out there. So yeah, 10 high tunnels, some outdoor fields, cover crops. Don, anything else I'm missing there? Apple orchards. Apple orchards. Yeah, apple orchards. Yum. I personally do not have a farm yet. I have been managing everyone else's.
37:32 It is an experience in itself developing someone's farm from the ground up or managing it from a bad place. And, you know, that's empowering in itself. and all of these steps, you know, investing in my own education and refining and widening my skill sets are all in preparation for when I do have my own land. We all know how hard that can be to obtain, especially in times like this. It's not like it was in the past, so I'm getting there. And, yeah, it's baby steps, big steps, leaps and baby steps. so I hope you guys caught that that hope is in between gigs right now and so if someone's looking
38:19 for a farm manager you might be able to persuade her you can probably catch up with her through drake and so we're propagating lots of berry bushes which I would recommend you guys to do that also the black currants and the service berry for the northern climates the kind of berries um with the IMOs that we did this week it was super fantastic doing the IMO 3 it was unbelievable how hot it got so fast it was really a babysitting thing that you really need to stay on it and so for you guys and we're at latitude 17 I think take that and so our farm is at latitude 59 so you people in between if
39:00 you get a nice warm stretch get your IMOs going now you can't build enough so So just keep IMO, IMO, IMO. The 4 went off a little faster than the 3, but it cooled down much faster. So you didn't have to worry too much about that one. Just keep it down around that 120 temperature. Yeah, and this week making our IMOs, I saw a little bit different behavior than I'm used to. Our IMO 3, where we're propagating the IMO in this rich substrate, it actually was more slower to start it took a few extra days to to get get up and cooking where it
39:40 was trying to go above 120 on us whereas our our adapted imo with the soil mixed with the propagated it it heated up steadily and and then heated up well and then now is already cooling off uh yesterday was um was 80 degrees or so so almost coming back down to room temperature and then but yet our our propagated i am all the one with all this fresh food was was just now starting to like hit 120 and even even went a little bit over 130 so even even with all my experience still here see I haven't seen that before so
40:19 so um so there is a question on um what are your aspirations after your experiences from this class and how do you plan to share them with the world um that is actually um again a a question that I could elaborate on in so many different ways. I think this experience here, I came with the intention to obtain knowledge and the real-life experience and have the mentorship of the practical applications to share with my communities and beyond. You know, I'm originally from the East Coast,
41:06 and my farming networks and communities are on the West Coast, But, you know, there's all of the experience and people and networks that I've met in between and kind of obtaining the real life experience here has evolved how I think about applying this to regions outside of my comfort zone. and really having that understanding to be able to tweak and adapt to different places. And so that's really increased my confidence in being able to share this all over the place, as well as understanding how these microorganisms work
41:54 and how we can find solutions in elements of life outside of farming. You know, we were talking about spraying the LABs on essentially anything that is smelling due to, you know, the not necessarily like beneficial organisms like anaerobic bacteria. Having that understanding of how powerful these microorganisms can be and how applicable they can be to all facets of life and solutions to issues outside farming is really powerful. You know, there's ways we can alleviate smell from a kitty litter box. You know, there's ways we can alleviate smell from, you know, a horse barn.
42:37 Like, again, outside of farming, these are solutions that are applicable to a lot of different components of life. That's definitely something that will transcend beyond farming. You want to start? so Don and I are a team and we we're super excited to apply more and more KNF techniques on our farm itself as those of you who are farmers know it is super hard to find time to do all sorts of things but we see true value in doing this and creating more nutritious and resilient plants so we're super excited to do it on our farm and to spread the word in
43:21 Homer and where we are in Alaska, we'll do some, maybe some YouTube and conference outreach, but we'll also, we've been talking about starting a KNF kind of club, if you will, where we can use our farm as a site and have people come and just have an evening of KNF and maybe, you know, Don will teach them fermented plant juice one night and then a different thing and next time they go and that sort of thing. So find some time to do that. And that way there, we can also demonstrate it on our farm and have that use going on and send samples home with people.
43:56 We currently, and for the last five years, have worked with a great group on Kodiak Island where they're starting small farms. So we started about five years ago with them, and now each of these village sites of four to start, but there's actually more joining in, have two high tunnels now that they didn't have before. They didn't have much outside growing or green vegetables in any of those village sites, really. And so we've been working with them, and they've really now started producing and producing. And just this past month, they released their website.
44:29 So it's the Kodiak Archipelago Leadership Institute, or CALI. And you can look that one up. And in Alaska, we try to promote locally grown foods. So there's a whole campaign that the Division of Ag has that's called Alaska Grown. Well, now these folks on the Kodiak Archipelago have a lutech grown for their tribal growing. And so they have created a whole brand and each farm has its own logo and site. And they're now expanding out into hydroponics a bit. Of course, we're a little more soil-based, but they're into the hydroponics and super great for the winter,
45:04 especially to have some fresh greens in the village available is super fantastic. So we support that as well. And they're getting into kelp farming. One of them has a bison herd And they've started from basically nothing in most of those sites, just a little bit of garden. But they see the value in it, and they're doing more and more. So that's super exciting, and we hope to keep continuing with that. Don? And so as soon as we get home, we're going to do a biochar talk with the Cooperative Extension, So the University of Alaska Fairbanks. And then we're doing the Homer Garden Club.
45:48 And they said, when should we do this? And I said, as soon as possible so you can make all the solutions for the summer. And so we're going to buy 10 of Drake's books and take them back with us. And hopefully everybody will get a little chance to take a look and get some things going and growing. yeah so if you guys are up in the alaska region and i think um they if you do your meeting would you do it uh have any online zoom type of thing for folks to engage or would it just be um with live audience uh i it depends everybody's kind of hesitant about covid so i think it might end up
46:27 being a Zoom meeting, in which case I'm sure people would be welcome to join in. You could... So, yeah, if you do want to check them out, it's Oceanside Farms. Oceanside Farms in Homer, Alaska, yes. Yeah, so start, you know, if you're up in the Alaska region, you want to join in with them, start checking that out. And it's great, great to have, you know, facilitation spreading to more regions because as people bring it and they anchor it and then they practice it, that's really what helps natural farming to grow. So there's a specific question here.
47:09 Francis is asking, I'm new to growing cannabis with KNF methods as well. Could you talk more about your experience applying KNF to cannabis? It's a hot topic these days and hope's been way deep in that industry. So let's hear it. Let's call them tomatoes. Okay. I think what's really advantageous about these applications and solutions are with cannabis, with green tomatoes, there is essentially a specific nutrient profile that you're going for at the different stages of the plant's life. And with these solutions, you can really hone in on that.
48:00 So when it comes to your fermented flower juice food, you can actually take, you know, your green tomato flowers and ferment those and feed those back to your plants. As well as, you know, every stage of the plant's growth, you can make a fermented plant juice out of your tops, you know, and your leaf foliage. So when you're going through and deleafing or defoliating or, you know, creating more airflow in your canopy, you can then take that biomass and ferment it and then feed that back to back to your plants.
48:36 So in that sense, I have definitely competed and won battles against specific pests and disease in green tomatoes that are very crop specific with these applications. You know, if you're using really strong microorganisms in defense of, you know, say like powdery mildew is a is a in California, at least is a disease that you see in green tomatoes a lot. And especially in, you know, the more agricultural communities, you get a lot of that diversity in pest and disease.
49:16 But the approach with KNF is really to increase your resistance to that and, you know, build those cell walls so that those pests and disease, A, can't get through it and B, don't want it. And your plant is actually, these microorganisms make nutrients so readily available to your plant that you don't have excess nutrients that are also attracting pests. and yeah I really think that it's more of like a instead of a band-aid which you see a lot in green tomatoes because it is such a monocrop if you could say if you want to call it that
49:58 it is a solution that is essentially building that immunity you know there are applications with KNF that it starts in the soil before you actually plant and so that that resilience and that defense is starting before the plant even enters the soil. So yeah, I would say that it's a great way to even avoid seeing those pests and disease. So it eliminates it before it even starts. And so there's a question here. Also kind of follow up on that on spider mites directly. But I did a really good interview with um spencer and earl and yarrow at the microbial secret society microbialsecret.org
50:49 and they talked a lot about um using knf for their indoor and outdoor operations to specifically deal with spider mites so um if you want check check that episode out um i guess i'll link it here below and um and then there's another question here wondering about um the poultry feed formula which we did a little bit of that um but i can i can outline that um next time and get on poultry and those things um but i wanted to ask you guys this question from ronnie and he says if they had to show one KNF product to somebody who doesn't know anything about natural farming,
51:37 what would be the first thing you would show how to make and use? I would probably say the LABs because your lactic acid bacteria, the whey and the food source for culturing those is a byproduct of the first step of cult of culture in your indigenous microorganisms and the LA bees are just so applicable to a lot of different facets of life you see these beneficial bacteria applied in a lot of different ways but I would say that would probably be the first one
52:22 Yeah, I would introduce. It's probably not the easiest to make, but it's using a byproduct of the first step of culturing. yeah so just to back up to the spider mites in Drake's book there's a really good recipe for building natural soap and you could use that as your laundry soap and your hair soap and your dish soap and you would just take maybe a plant from around your farm basil or peppermint or something and throw it into a pot and boil it down until it's half size and then you would add that to your soap and make a spray for your bugs that you're trying to kill.
53:11 And you could do just take one branch off and throw it in a bowl or something and spray it and see how much dilution you need to do. You don't want to put too much harshness on your plants, just enough to kill the bugs. And what was the question? So the other one is if you were to introduce someone to natural farming, which solution would you introduce them to first? I think the fermented plant juice is pretty darn easy. So go out in the morning and cut some plants down before the sun pops up so you get all those good... Chips? Yeah, I'm thinking of the enzyme that's... Oxens. Oxens, yeah.
53:56 Donna Ray's my hero. So... We're a team. And then if it's terrible, tear it up instead of cutting it and then kind of mix it with brown sugar. The recipe is in Drake's book again, and it's pretty darn easy. Maybe three, four to seven days you'll have a product that you can add right to the plants. Donnery? Yeah, I probably would go with fermented plant juices as well just because they're pretty simple to make. and you can see results really quickly with your plants and with the results for growth tip growing or just before flowering or just before fruiting
54:39 and work on the timing of that to coincide. The other thing, I guess, the really exciting thing is collecting those little leprechauns, those little microorganisms out in the world and just letting people realize, wow, if you put out a little box of that rice and make your IMO1, you can see all those little critters growing, and that's super exciting. So that might be a good demonstration as a first thing as well. I kind of wanted to piggyback on this question really quickly. I think it really depends on kind of what your intent is.
55:15 Say you have a farmer garden that is experiencing a lot of pest and disease. introducing K&F shouldn't be seen as a solution in that respect until like I would suggest you know using the soap or the LABs to kind of combat your your pressures and get those down before adding a more of a food source what could which like the FPJ which could essentially increase your issues you know if you're if your plant is in a condition of health where it's already not obtaining and uptaking these nutrients feeding more food is not going to be a solution I think
55:58 really increasing the activity of your soil by adding more minerals adding that that salt water as well as you know kind of like alleviating the pressure the pest pressure using the soap you know get those bugs off using the LABs, combat those disease, you know, that powdery mildew, and then introducing more of the solutions that are going to invigorate the plant. Okay, and then I got a question here. This will be like a quiz for you guys. Stonemason is asking, should IMO borer be stored where it won't freeze?
56:44 So I'm at latitude 59 stonemason. Everything freezes. I think you have the indigenous microorganisms that live in your soil and so around us probably the top 16 inches freezes solid. So everybody's freezing every year. it was minus 26 right nearby us when we came down here last week so it's it's pretty cold up there for a chunk of time but everything freezes where we are but what would you say to that dr drake well so you know trying trying to avoid putting it in a place where it's going to be in extreme conditions such as like you know don't just like leave it out where it's going to
57:32 freeze where it's exposed to the elements but having it you know if it's in like one of your your storage areas like your high tunnel your barn something where it's going to get really cold it's it's not like you have to run your own heater system for it and because when you're finished with im04 it's in its spore form it's in a much more stable storable form and my my thought and thinking on it is it it will go dormant and that the freezing won't affect it as much because it's already in that spore form which is the form that it's able to endure the most abuse in terms of
58:11 the fungus goes into spores specifically to you know avoid freezing or or cooking to death or any of these things the key then is to get it to come back out of that spore form i i would just imagine in my mind that if you have the IMO4 and it's freezing and it's getting just all this winter kind of harshness to it, that it may have a harder time to wake up. So just making sure when you go to apply your IMO4 after storing it and it's frozen, making sure to put all the food, the medicine, the minerals, everything to give it those humic fulvic acids to create this environment.
58:55 So when spring hits and you put it out, it really knows, okay, now it's time to hatch. But storing it frozen, I don't recommend you take it and put it in a freezer. But if your environment's already going to freeze, just treating it as something that isn't going to be in extreme conditions should be fine. So I don't have too much experience with that, but you guys should do a bit of science and figure that out for us. And yeah, here he's saying also because of the dehydration, it's largely when it's in its spore form, it's good to go.
59:45 Okay, so let's see here. So Mark, who is a student here, is saying he eats all of his cannabis FPJ. None ever makes it to the garden. His cancer hates it along with the OHN LAB. So using that. Bravo. Yeah, and then folks are talking about, you know, that LAB is one of the first solutions to make is a good idea. So there's a question here from Francis asking, can I make IMO without OHN? He says he's having trouble sourcing Angelica through international shipping.
1:00:39 That's an easy one, Mountain Rose Herbs. And you got it. They have all the ingredients right there. They'll ship it to you. That's what they do for a living. and so what I would like to say here I know we're running out of time people a lot of people are teaching and writing about KNF but Donna Ray and I are avid youtubers in the winter time because we have like five hours of daylight so plenty of time downtime and so a lot of people are not exactly true with their recipes to what Master Cho had in mind, so it's good to follow Drake's book.
1:01:19 And yeah, we looked at a few books that were just like, ooh, those people didn't know what they were doing. And we watched a couple YouTubes that weren't quite exact also, but as Drake would say, do something. And one of the things we're hoping to do now that we've taken this class, especially we've been inspired as we start to really get better and better at the recipes that we're doing and doing it properly. We're going to hope to expand out and try some different things that are plants that are in our area and see how available they are for use. Specifically Angelica, we have a
1:01:56 variety of Angelica that's different than the one I think that they sell through Mountain Rose Herbs. And so we'd like to try making some of taking some of that root and harvesting it ourselves and seeing if that variety or species of Angelica will work as well or differently in our environment. But it's about using what's local. And once you kind of get all these good skills down through doing a class like Drake's, then you're more free to be creative and expand, I think, and start to know what's really working or not. I was going to say Gil Karengan of the Philippines.
1:02:35 He just uses ginger and garlic in his ferment, and the herbs are too expensive and unaccessible where he is, and he says the ginger-garlic works just fine. You've got to do with what you have. And I would say also, just to add to that, that Master Cho's recipes are kind of like the, you know, the top end result. And so it's something to grow to and aspire to. Gil would always talk about cars and he'd say, you know, you can get the Ferrari to get there, but you can also get there on a moped. And so the key is to, you know, we talked about this here of the how versus the why.
1:03:22 and really the why of what you're trying to accomplish tends to be the more important factor of why you're trying to do something. So still accomplish that why and then always get better with how you're getting to that why in a building process. Because when you guys started, you didn't have everything ready at once. But just starting to apply those things as you're making them and then see those effects. I believe is is helpful as well. So there's a question here for the Alaska guys specifically and they're asking what kind of things do you think would be good for your fermented plant juices?
1:04:12 So we've been doing horsetail for silica and comfrey for potassium, phosphorus, and a little bit of nitrogen, and then we're doing stinging nettle for nitrogen and boron. Yeah, I think those are the main ones I'm thinking of too. I'd like to try doing some from some of the plants that we see with different properties that are interesting to us and seem helpful. Things like chickweed that grows so prolifically where we are might be a really good stimulating kind of a fermented plant juice to do. So sometimes we match the fermented plant juice with the plant that we're growing,
1:04:56 and sometimes we look for ones with different properties like these that we're talking about to grow them further. And so we do a high tunnel of strawberries, and this year we're excited to take the runners and use them in our ferment also and feed that nutrition right back to the strawberries. Last year we just fed them through the soil and we had the best season ever. We had like an eight-week season for June-bearing strawberries. Anything to add? Well, you have those ferments. So let's see here. We get back into this.
1:05:38 um so um so ollie um he's he was up in oregon and ben when i met him and he's he's asking here um what do you think about the balance of lactic acid bacteria and aerobic microbes and he's asking you know the importance of the biodiversity is key to unlocking their true potential so so what is what are your thoughts I think kind of talking here about the balance between lactic acid bacteria and then by aerobic microbes like meaning the IMO and what is what are your thoughts on that balance I
1:06:24 think that an imbalance in microorganisms becomes very relevant And like you can you can you can see it and you can smell it. And I think that having a balanced microorganism profile and diversity is going to be most advantageous. And it's also dependent on what you're growing and what your intent is. You know, if you have trees and more fibrous plants growing, generally those are wanting a more like fungal dominant profile as opposed to, say, like more vegetative growth or, you know, like your grass is going to want more of the bacterial diversity.
1:07:11 So I think that really reading your landscape and understanding what your specific larger organisms want will kind of like give you the range of what kind of diversity and profile you're going for. If that makes sense. Yeah. Well, so and to expand on that, you know, here the lactic acid bacteria is one of the nine core solutions that we're making. and i actually am running into an interesting problem so to say where the lactic acid bacteria we tried to make during this class turned out like yogurt instead of separating like curds and whey
1:07:53 so what i what i believe is happening here is that we've actually like um supported our indigenous microbes and our aerobic microbes so well that they're actually starting to out compete the lab which is an interesting thing because usually the lab is one of the more powerful microorganisms that would dominate and consume a food supply yet for some reason here um there's so much um bacillus subtilis and these these other um what would be more indigenous microbes taking over that they're out competing my lab so i've gotten to a point where i think i've been natural farming
1:08:35 long enough that the IMOs are really rising back to their strength. And then that's just going to be a benefit because those are the ones that I really want to, those are building my soil and doing these things. As market farmers, I'll just add, we really appreciate that diversity too, through developing these IMO4s and doing all of these practices such that we're going to likely reduce our crop rotations because they won't need the rotation so much if their soil is full of a diversity of microbes. So I'll just throw that in there as a thought as a market farmer.
1:09:21 And so it's a pretty cool way to turn a monocrop into a polycrop for thinking there's the plants will think there's more plants around because they're getting exudates from a different variety with the difference between aerobic microbes and the lactobacillus so let's let's take this one as like our last question here today and this is benjamin asking can you make FAA without IMO4? Yes. Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
1:10:07 The fish amino acids are really only two ingredients. You get your fish waste and you have your sugar, and the sugar is going to supersaturate that fish and pull out your good fats and oils and amino acids. Yeah. So what would A plus on? I was going to add, if you add the right amount of sugar, you shouldn't have any problem with bad bacteria getting in your FAA. You might think to add the IMO to sort of mitigate pathogens,
1:10:53 but the sugar itself is a good enough substance to mitigate that. And then FAA is full of lactobacillus, so that's also present, contributing to this really great product that doesn't stink and shouldn't stink. Yeah, Dr. Drake taught us to put a lot of the brown sugar on the very bottom of your bucket to start before you put your fish down. And then that way you won't get such a possibility of anaerobic bacteria in my mind in the bottom. Is that accurate? Yep. And then layer it even amounts as you go up the bucket. Yeah. So once again, I'd say get the book straight from the horse's mouth.
1:11:38 So you'd want to come to the class more importantly. But if you can't, then get the book. And blueback fish, so salmon, tuna, anchovies, herring, oily, and super nutritious. Yeah, so I want to thank you guys for tuning in today. I want to thank you guys for being here, sharing your wisdom, going out and the kindness, and then also GrowPro and Stonemason for helping financially support us in this endeavor and getting our YouTube live to you guys. I'll be back next week, Sunday, 9 a.m. Hawaiian time.
1:12:26 And in the meantime, we're going to have some fun today, finish up our recipes and graduate and have fun with each other here. Enjoy the beautiful day it is in Hawaii. We're going to get the microscope out and spy on them. all those microorganisms yeah look and see what they're wearing or not wearing but uh yeah thanks thanks for tuning in and uh yeah long live the natural farmer aloha