Powdered Milk LAB, FAA Storage, and Bokashi Balls for Ponds
Thomas, a first-time visitor who just finished a week of teacher training at the farm, joins Dr. Drake for this office hours. The I Ching reading is Ting, the Cauldron, on humility and receiving guidance. Most of the hour covers LAB (lactic acid bacteria serum): powdered milk works fine for making it since lactobacillus just needs lactose, though the curds can turn out grainy or foamy and are best thrown out. LAB is Drake's pick for the easiest KNF solution to start with, useful to drink as a probiotic, spray on soil, or clean with.
They cover FAA (fish amino acid, also called knfFuel): after three months a thick sugar layer on the bottom is normal, no need to stir it, and it doesn't need extra saturation before storing because it's already supersaturated, which keeps the lactobacillus dormant until diluted. For FPJ/knfFood, use only one plant per batch so its own leaf microbes ferment cleanly. Match the plant to the goal: flowers for flowering, aggressive young growers like Japanese knotweed for acceleration, comfrey as an all-purpose dynamic accumulator, arugula for leafy greens. Standard FPJ dilution is 1:500; go thinner, closer to 1:1000, if combining more than three FPJs in one application.
Other questions: turning LAB into clay bokashi balls, diluted around 1:1000, that sink and clean pond muck; spraying LAB or scattering IMO3/4 on animal bedding and cement pig floors to cut smell and speed manure breakdown; keeping 4 to 6 inches of dried grass clippings for chickens even on a raised floor; and using JMS prep on soil right away while waiting on slower KNF solutions to finish.
Questions answered
- 22:40 Can powdered milk be used to make LAB? — Yes, lactobacillus just needs lactose to work, though the curds can taste off and fillers in cheap powdered milk can throw off the ferment.
- 25:53 Can powdered goat's milk make LAB? — Yes, but goat's milk sells for more than cow's milk, so it's usually cheaper to buy cow's milk powder and sell the goat's milk instead.
- 29:11 Which KNF solution should I start with? — LAB — it's easy to access with rice, milk, a jar, and water, fast to make, and versatile: drink it, clean with it, or spray it on plants and soil.
- 32:14 What benefit does drinking LAB give after surgery or antibiotics? — After six weeks on IV antibiotics, drinking LAB stopped Drake's bloating, cut constant food cravings, and improved his general well-being.
- 41:46 FAA has a thick sugar layer on the bottom after 3 months — stir it or leave it? — No need to stir; if there's no smell and the fish heads aren't floating, pour off the liquid and let the rest keep fermenting.
- 46:09 Does FAA need to be supersaturated before storing? — No — it's already supersaturated with sugar, which is what keeps the lactobacillus dormant and safe to store.
- 50:59 How do I choose which plants to use for FPJ or knfFood? — Match the plant to the goal: flowers for flowering, aggressive young growers for acceleration, fruit for fruiting, and never mix more than one plant per ferment.
- 54:49 How can I make LAB into a pellet that sinks into my pond? — Mix diluted LAB into clay and roll it on a tarp to form bokashi balls that sink and release microbes into the muck.
- 1:00:14 Can I spray LAB on animal bedding to control smell? — Yes — spraying LAB on bedding speeds manure breakdown and eliminates odor by restoring microbial balance.
- 1:03:16 What nutrients does FPJ actually give my plants? — Think of FPJ like NPK — deep-taprooted plants bring more minerals, fast growers bring more growth hormones.
- 1:04:52 Can I make an arugula FPJ for leafy greens? — Yes — arugula's vigorous growth makes it a strong all-purpose FPJ for leafy greens like lettuce.
- 1:05:36 My chicken coop has a raised wood floor — can I still do deep litter? — Yes, just 4 to 6 inches of dried grass clippings works even on a raised floor; long straw mats down instead of turning.
- 1:07:11 How do I cut the smell from a cement pig pen? — Scatter IMO3 or IMO4 after hosing the floor down, then spray LAB to activate it and crowd out odor-causing microbes.
- 1:08:37 Can I make FPJ from couch grass roots? — Yes if you shake the dirt off first, though roots hold nutrients tighter, so a KNF-medicine style alcohol extract pulls out more.
- 1:15:37 Is it safe to use JMS prep on soil while waiting on other KNF solutions to finish? — Yes — apply it right away, it builds a living soil base that later IMO applications will thrive on.
KNF Office Hours is a free live Q&A every Sunday at 9 AM HST. Bring your question to pureknf.org/learn/questions or join live.
In this episode
- 0:00 Intro and welcome
- 1:16 I Ching reading — Ting, The Cauldron
- 8:04 Seed IMO/IMO1: cool to the touch, wait an extra day
- 9:07 Making LAB from powdered milk
- 15:00 Best KNF solution to start with: LAB
- 17:16 LAB for human health after surgery
- 20:43 Bill Mollison and Jeff Lowenfels' Teeming With books
- 24:34 Failed or slow LAB batches, cold temps, and natto competition
- 27:05 FAA (fish amino acid): sugar layer, should I stir?
- 32:08 FAA: does it need to be supersaturated to store?
- 36:36 Choosing plants for FPJ or knfFood
- 37:55 Japanese knotweed and comfrey for knfFood
- 40:48 Bokashi balls: LAB pellets for cleaning ponds
- 43:07 One plant per knfFood ferment
- 46:13 Spraying LAB on animal bedding
- 49:31 FPJ as NPK plus trace minerals and hormones
- 50:29 Arugula FPJ for leafy greens
- 53:03 Cleaning pig pens with IMO3/4
- 58:27 Why call it Korean Natural Farming?
- 1:05:15 Closing: inoculate the world
Transcript
Auto-transcribed with Whisper. Click any timestamp to play from there.
11:00 How did it not be used?
14:30 so good morning and welcome to the office hour for february 20th 2022 and um got a special guest here with me today this is thomas hello and i think his mic needs a little fix in there we'll get those levels all set up here as we get into this um but um yeah so i wanted to start off here a little bit with our i-ching and get that together so today is the cauldron just it's one of my favorites
15:24 The more painful I Chings, it really makes you look inside. So you serve as an example to others by sacrificing your ego and accepting the guidance of the higher power. The hexagram Ting concerns the nourishment and guidance one must have in order to fully succeed. While the culture around us often encourages us to take charge and make aggressive demands on life, the I Ching offers us far wiser counsel. Here we are encouraged to give up the incessant demands of the ego, to deepen our humility and acceptance, and to listen carefully to the
16:06 instructions of the sage. The image of the cauldron concerns your inner thoughts. Whatever you hold in the cauldron of your mind is your offering to the higher power. The quality of assistance you can receive from the universe is governed by the quality of your offering. If you constantly indulge in the concerns of the ego, fears, desires, strategies of control, harshness towards others, you repel the higher power and block your nourishment.
16:40 If, on the other hand, you consciously let go of the resistance to life and hold quiet and correct thoughts, you become receptive to the creative and your continual nourishment is assured. Ting comes to suggest that the wisest thing you can do now is to still your ego and conscientiously enter into a conversation with the sage. To influence others or to achieve a proper goal, follow the same path. By cultivating humility and acceptance, purifying your inner thoughts, and concentrating on that which is good and innocent and true,
17:28 you summon the power of the creative to meet with good fortune in the outer world and so i know i know for me this week um i'm trying to and you know always trying to keep good thoughts but this week has been a good week here with thomas we just did our week-long training. Got into the teacher training a bit. Let me get go ahead and talk and let me get your mic going here. Go for it. You want to say a little bit about what we did
18:14 this week? This mic will pick you up right now. I would say we've gone through pretty much all the solutions this week. Checked out his FAA the other day, which was surprisingly pleasant to smell and taste. What else? We poured off LAB yesterday gave two of the other students a nice handle of LAB and yeah this week's been good this week has been very eye opening for me so I think you're in Paul
19:01 yeah so I think Thomas' mic is up and running for him now and good to go so yeah we I don't know, you enjoy the process here? Yeah, I really enjoy the process here. It's given me the confidence to go back to my home and practice this without too much worry of trial and error. So that's given me a lot of confidence. and thomas it tunes into the the office hours quite frequently what's what's your youtube handle i would be i would be eyewitness so i decided to come out here and check it all out
19:49 so it's been great yeah so it's it's uh for for me it's just been an amazing experience to have thomas here because it's so weird like connecting through office hours you know some somebody that is out there in the universe that i don't know and they're practicing korean natural farming wanting to learn more wanting to you know dive into this as a as a thing and through through this office hour getting getting inspired to to like just come out here and be here and immerse yeah yeah yeah it was pretty interesting meeting you because i'm like but i've been watching this
20:30 I don't know how many hours I've watched of his content. So it was very interesting to meet the man, the myth, the legend. But let me ask you that too. If you've been tuning in a whole bunch, how much more do you think this, what did you get from this? If you've already been practicing, you've already been watching, what more did you get from being here? For me, it was the teacher validation on what is correct. Being able to taste it, smell it, see it, feel it. All those things and having you, who's been practicing this much longer, validate correction.
21:18 So that's the biggest thing. because you know i was hung up on you know a little bit of anxiety going into knf still because of you know there's so many nuances and there's trial and errors but coming here i feel like it's it's a big i guess i could say shortcut to to confidence with with your own solutions yeah like the the seeing the tasting the feeling like and actually like like we we experienced it all right i mean i think we've done every recipe besides we didn't necessarily start an im04 but it kind of finished out during this class and there's a little hand waving on that but yeah
22:02 and and we haven't um checked our box yet yes we'll probably do that today yes we we actually We went up yesterday to check our IMO, seed IMO, our IMO1 collection, and it was cool underneath. Yeah. So since we put in a Laohala basket, I figured, you know, we got one more day of class. I wanted to pull it yesterday early, but it's best to wait till it's done, till I feel those indicators, those signs. And maybe we'll post a picture of the IMO we collected on the YouTube and show you guys maybe next week.
22:40 yeah i'll take a picture of it let's go cool so i've been really enjoying this time but let's let's let's dive into a few of these questions here and i actually got a few questions in the email from mau um in cambodia and so we got we got some good questions today so good to see you guys here what's up girl pro and girl pro has a question here and let's see let's let's give thomas a little quiz and ask him what he thinks on this one so can powdered milk be used to make lab yes we actually you made a comment yesterday that you have made uh lab from powdered milk
23:30 so and is it is it cheaper and yep that's that's one of the advantages of powdered milk and also if you know if you're on a farm where you can't get to the um you know you don't have refrigeration powdered milk can be stored in a crate that's true yeah made on demand so one my one thing is in my experience making it with powdered milk is usually the powdered milk is like fortified and i think that means they put some other things in there like other vitamins or minerals or vitamin d and stuff like that but then i also when i was in the philippines i'm not sure
24:12 if it's just because i bought the cheap brand but they also put in some filler starch thing that wasn't just milk so so those did affect it and when i made the lab from powdered milk it worked I got the curds floating at the top. I got the whey at the bottom. And so I got whey. So the lactic acid bacteria ate the lactose and turned it into curds and whey. However, the curds taste like crap. Not surprised. Yeah. I mean. So. But as long as it has lactose, you can be pretty confident in making LAB. Yep.
24:57 Yeah. Yep. Cause it's really, it's really those lactose are, are the few bacteria that can break down the lactose sugar, which is like a mirror image, I think of sucrose. Okay. I'm pretty sure either that or glucose, it's, it's one of the other sugars, it's a mirror image. And really only lactobacillus has the ability to, to really break that down in a way where I think some other things can, but, but they're not, it's not like their preferred food. other bacteria would rather eat different things whereas lactobacillus really wants to eat that
25:30 lactose so you put that much lactose milk in there and it just it has food nothing else has food and it thrives cool and then um here it's um oh the goof man is on what's up brother he's he's one of um the main guys on can of support really been answering the questions there and he's saying he's done it with powdered goat's milk i don't know where you got the powdered goat's milk but that sounds um sounds sort of pricey yeah i mean yeah but if it's for your consumption and you're gonna do it and you want that that's good sometimes if you had like for instance if i had
26:16 access to goat's milk it may if you want to make product for yourself and do it it may make sense But I always take Gil's advice when people would ask him, can you ferment with honey? And the answer is yes. But the market value of honey is much higher than sugar. And so similar on this, the market value of goat's milk is much higher than cow's milk. And so if you're doing it agriculturally, it may be better off to sell your milk if you can and then buy other milks to do these things. So it all depends on that. And he did it just the other day with powdered milk.
27:02 And the biology doesn't, you know, they don't care. They're like, just give me lactose, you know, as long as it's lactose. Right, right. So, yeah, I support that ideology. allergy and then you know once you get past the lactose now you're into the fats and those different things but since in natural farming we're kind of discarding those there's no i i don't i don't know it would be real interesting to take different types of milk sources and put them next to each other and take the same inoculum and and stir it up and put it in and see and then test to see what comes out
27:44 from the different milks yeah and also different milks have different levels of lactose and I think cow's milk has generally higher amount of lactose so that'll be something to look at I think yeah that's good to know too gotta get the one with the actual stuff you're looking for um so yeah he's saying it smells funny compared to the regular lab totally it's yeah it's kind of funky um and the cheese curds were weird foaming texture i toss them it's exactly what i find from the powdered milk it doesn't form the same bonds it's kind of yeah grainy
28:34 texture. He says foamy texture. It sounds uncomfortable to like eat. Yeah, just discard those. No need. Okay. So, and is that Julia? Man, my eyes. No, it's Juras. Juras. juras is saying that um they just made a first good batch of lab today and let me ask you of all the korean natural farming solutions the nine core solutions and more than we did would you
29:19 say lab is a good starting point yes it's a great starting point um not only because of ease of access because i mean i'm sure most of you guys have rice and milk and a jar and water um but the versatility also the speed the speed in which you can get a final product so if you fail start up you'll you'll in about a week tops you know you'll have another result but the versatility I think is really cool. You can clean with it. You can drink it yourself for a probiotic. You can use it in the soil, and they'll till out your soil.
30:06 Or spray it on your plants, and they'll clean up anything nasty on your plants. Yeah. LAB is my favorite. LAB is always my introduction solution. That or FPJ, because FPJ is just material and sugar. you know so so yeah and when we're doing this class um there's there's two other folks that are taking the class um that are that are pretty much brand new to korean natural farming like i think olivia saw a couple videos or something i don't know somehow somehow they knew enough to reach out to me so they saw something and they reached out because they they have just moved from
30:47 um like southern california ish ventura area and they got a really nice property here um up mauka just just above hilo and they've they're wanting to just like homestead to dive into this to to learn and they know a little bit about knf but they're also like um health people like when i mean the vibes i get from them is they're really concerned about that they they make a very good point their their goal is to get their health back that's what they that's their statement get their health back so and and then they were also involved in a in a terrible car accident a little bit ago and so
31:33 so having this um having learning like coming coming here to learn from the farm to see what we have. I think they've already been seated with these ideas, but the, I think one of the most amazing things for me this week, working, teaching with them and having them interact with Thomas has been just this dialogue and interaction between them of, because they're health people and because we're into this and because all the solutions we're making are edible. I think it's just blowing their mind to realize that they thought they were going to learn some
32:10 farming stuff but they're really learning how to like yeah you can't really take care of their health yeah i remember i told them about lab and uh and i so i had a surgery after my surgery i ended up on iv antibiotics for six weeks and so when i think i don't know a couple months after I was making solutions and I made LAB first and I drank it and the benefits were astounding for me. I mean, I was able to digest food without being bloated. I stopped craving food because I craved food every two hours.
32:55 And then general well-being just increased as I kept drinking it. And when I told them about it, they were like, just blown away. They're like, wait, you drink this? And it's like, yeah, every day. And they're, you know, after that, you know, you tell them about FPJ and then OHN and calcium, calcium phosphate. and they're just like it's like you know it was it was cool seeing their their eyes like open up and and like gears start turning like wow this is this isn't just agriculture this is like human human health you know so it was it was really neat seeing this dynamic
33:42 yeah yeah and i think i just think getting these tools into their hands early when they're gonna start into their farming they're gonna be able to start probiotically they're gonna be able to build soil foundation they're gonna have the tools i think they need to do this besides just the the other part of farming which is just you're never a good farmer i mean like i guess that's that's kind of a weird way of saying what i'm trying to think of is like you're always getting better like you can't like take a class and be like oh i know how to farm now you're gonna get
34:23 to the field and get into the school of hard knocks and that's that's something i can't i can't help them with but besides they they just need to experience it and then when they have problems um that come up um from korean you know korean natural farming has a lot of solutions that can fix things yeah but there's nothing like getting in the field and doing it so so they've been that you know been encouraging them to look up uh bill bill mollison for permaculture and then thomas brought the whole set of uh teaming with teaming with uh jeff lohenfeld's
35:02 series teaming with uh nutrients microbes and fungi so yeah they were he uh steve he really liked having that that textbook format really to the point you know informative yeah so and since since i mentioned the teaming with books and those to get into it can you expand a little bit on that I know they're really good. I really only read the teeming with microbes. But can you expand on what you got from that? So teeming with nutrients goes into the botany of the plant from the cell.
35:49 They start from the cell because, you know, I mean, if you start there, you have a pretty good picture of how, you know, all plants are going to be performing. And then they go into each nutrient, what it's used for. And I think, yeah, it also brushes up on how that nutrient gets cycled in the ecosystem and how basically plants will only uptake an ionic form of a nutrient. So if it's negatively or positively charged and whether I think positively charged nutrients get locked in the soil,
36:39 negatively ones are water-soluble, I believe. Is it like cation anion? Yes. Okay. Yep. So yeah, there's a bit of chemistry. And then teaming with microbes, you're going to understand the microbial ecosystem and how they all cycle and their food web, basically who eats who and why nutrients cycle and who you're going to need if you want X nutrient or what this guy is good for. So teaming with microbes is good for K&F, pairing with K&F.
37:25 And then teaming with fungi pretty much just goes into fungus because fungus are sensitive in terms of their foundation and developing in the soil. So there's an importance to them. and that's and that's yeah that's kind of what we're doing with korean natural farming is building those those microbes together but then really trying to establish fungus to be these nutrient transporters these these um you know the electrical and water lines of the soil to make it so we have less irrigation less fertilization um and the fungus is our farmer yeah they're
38:14 24-hour workers we can we can cultivate them and grow them and just feed them and we're we're we're good to go you know it's amazing so so uh here in the chat here um guys still talking about lab i'm just a little ways back on it um and uh rainbow possum was talking about that uh they had some failed batches of LAB, probably because it was cold in the house. You know, this week when we did our collection, I thought that this house here may be too contaminated with the natto microbe. So Suze has been making natto and making a whole bunch of, she's after the vitamin K2 in
39:02 there and wanting to have this fermentation happen with Bacillus subtilis, which makes a Japanese food called natto and so she's been just like eating it and bringing it everywhere and um and it it competes with the lactobacillus and so the last batch of lab we did in this house turned to yogurt and it took maybe a week and a half before it kind of separated to curds and whey and and it just you know and it probably was some secondary fermentation happening but the yogurt itself was delicious. I ate a lot of it but then we left some of it there too to go.
39:42 So it depends on what you mean by failure. Yeah. Our batches this week came out perfect. I got a picture here. I took a picture. Why not? So he's good too. Let's see. I might have to, yeah. There. So look at that nice separation of our LAB. And then let me get it back for us. So yeah, so great separation. All the Kurtz came out. Beautiful, beautiful. He says he started putting the jar right next to the radiator.
40:28 And that's totally true. um the the interesting thing about it is that um uh lactobacillus grows best around room temperature so if you can keep it around you know and it's not it's not like like room temperature is like 75 degrees right around there yeah in the 70s i would say yeah so so it's not like what the temperature room is it's like that it's actually room temperature means like yeah so i wonder if if it's really a failure or if it's really just it just needed time because failure to me is like
41:00 contamination you know if it just needs time it just needs time okay okay so we got a we got a question on what i call canna fuel it's also known as fish amino acid and it's made he made it from the fish heads and it's sitting now for three months and there's a thick layer of sugar at the bottom should i stir it or let it be for another three months at least what are your thoughts on that i would think as long as fish heads are not floating to the top and you aren't getting a funky smell i'd say he's good cool so yeah and i wouldn't i wouldn't worry about the
41:46 sugar on the bottom. And I would say just, um, if you've already waited three months, uh, you can start to pour some of that liquid off and then just let the fish sit there again with the sugar and all the juice that comes out of there should be good. I w I wouldn't add more sugar or anything. I don't in my batches, I usually don't get a layer of sugar at the bottom. So you may have added a little bit more sugar in the beginning and or the material you're using may just behave different because like meat's different than heads is different than guts and blood and all that.
42:24 So as long as, yeah, like Thomas said, if there's no smell, good to go. And here, I believe the fish amino acid, the can of fuel is one of the recipes that Thomas did here for the first time. Yes. that was that was mind-blowing to me just because he opened it up and like it looks gnarly but it smelled so good it was and i couldn't wait to taste it because i was like well i mean that smells good i mean he's got a taste you know so yeah that was that was that was good and you just read up on the benefits of consuming fa yourself well fish right the other the other week yeah
43:13 yeah so that is something i think i'm going to start once i go back home because you know it takes a while so might as well do it first yeah and this is something this past week i i've been incorporating into kind of my my daily drink although i didn't i didn't drink it today i just drink coffee because i don't know like it's just what's there probably should have woken up and drink natural farming solutions if i really want to stay healthy and live long like a true natural farmer i mean coffee's got a lot of antioxidants it's true so you're fine it's true maybe
43:52 have you have you ever tried fermenting coffee no I think the beans are fermented prior to being roasted isn't that true that sounds familiar at least chocolate is fermented first I don't know is coffee fermented first this would be interesting and if it isn't maybe this is some merch I should have for this office hour you know click and buy our fermented coffee from Hawaii people love coffee yeah why yeah people love coffee and speaking of that i just want to shout out to grow pro dropping some some super chats on us here i think there's actually a super sticker it's somewhere in
44:37 the chat here there it is oh look at that sticker it's a wow and then um other folks if you want to donate um pureknf.org you can make a donation there or through the super chat here it's always nice fun good um and appreciate all the support that makes this happen because yeah this is valuable this is this is valuable and drake is definitely making a sacrifice to do this so i mean yeah i thinking about it this morning i was just i was over helping helping my mom print out some labels and things this morning and then just i'm like man i can really use a sunday rest but we keep going
45:28 and i want to keep showing up for this and also you know the class today and just push it through um okay so oh so both mics are picking up thomas's voice yeah i i saw i um I scoot away. Well, one of the interesting things is I set this mic to be, this one to be so sensitive. So if I'm away like this or I'm close like this, you guys can still hear me. And so the issue is that it's also picking up Thomas's mic. So I can fix that here for one sec. So while I fix this. Okay, so Stonemason, what's up Stonemason? says he's getting ready to dump off his first batch of FAA.
46:17 It smells amazing. Been going seven months. Does it need to be super saturated to be stored? No. Why not? You've already weighed out equal weight and sugar when you initially did the process, but you're telling me it smells amazing. So if it smells amazing, I would say you are good to go. yeah so that is the whole deal on that is that it is so sugary in its solution it's already super saturated the water's already been tied up and that's enabling that liquid that comes out to just be processed by the lactic acid bacteria which is powerful enough that it can't be arrested
47:08 in fermentation some the other the other um solutions um have different microbes in there where when i add the the water it or excuse me when i add the sugar they go to sleep but the lactic acid bacteria is like sugary water all right and it doesn't do this it's like a kid that doesn't take a nap, right? Yay. And so, um, so it's, that's what's happening. It doesn't need to be super saturated. It is super saturated in the lactobacillus. That's why it takes three months because it is this slow function of happening. The lacto breaking it down through super saturation.
47:52 oh yeah what's up we just got a two fifty dollar donations what what nice yeah cool it's a good good motivation for us we can we can finish we can make it through the hour right yeah yeah now we can yeah so jurus is here and got the right answer which is the super saturation keeps the microorganisms dormant and this is one of the weird things is with with the um fish amino acid you're super saturating it during the making process and that slows down the fermentation which enables the lacto to do the slow job as that liquid is pulled out to do its thing um okay so let's see here
48:48 okay so the goof man got his goat milk free from farmer friend they had baby goats free is free free is free he's free probably if you sold it your friend would be like bro i gave that to you for you why'd you sell it because i made money and i bought more milk and we made more lacto man yeah friends like no man i didn't milk that for you to sell it's like another 50 you ever you ever uh is there yeah whoa oh and that one's from beth hey so shout out to beth she is one of the best natural farmers in the
49:34 los angeles region and she is here visiting the knf farm hanging out with my mom doing some gardening some trail clearing and you know all all the good natural farmers coming coming through um and last week too we had cheryl was here cheryl you got some time to spend with cheryl yeah we as soon as i got here we went up and turned her i'm a four so yeah i got to talk to her and then we hung out in the kitchen i gave her my email so yeah and you guys talking story it's good to grow this kind of natural farming community through here, through everyone coming together.
50:20 Yeah. Yeah. It's important for us not to become a dying breed. So, you know, don't let this information die with us. You know? So I emphasize that. Yeah. So a question here from Jiras is, how do I choose plants for fermented plant juice or can of food? Can it be multiple plants? And he's in, or I don't know if it's a he, I'm in Europe, so it's an I. So what would you say here? You don't want multiple plants in the same fermentation. but how would you choose your plants is based on what result you want so if you want a tree to
51:11 flower then you would go find flowers and ferment them if you find let's say young plants you can use those to accelerate your even your starters or if you just have a slow growing plant you can use them to supplement if you find aggressive weeds you can use those because they will they will have what you need to accelerate your your plant's growth so and then if you want um if you want your plants to fruit ferment fruits you know yeah simple formula it's graciously convenient it so right right matching matching to the to what you got to what you got um and and i like
52:03 that about the aggressive weeds too there's there's typically some sort of like like um for instance in in the pacific northwest and you know it's not europe here because i i haven't i haven't been to europe since i've been knowing natural farming and to see and to recognize the plants and those things but they have this thing called japanese knotweed which is this gnarly growing um uh like makes roots and and ruins sidewalks and eats your foundation as it grows under things and people hate it however if you were just to go out and continually prune it and
52:41 chop it back and make ferments from that it would be just infinite and when you look at the medicinal values of it has all kinds of tannins and things in there that are that when they study wine, it's, it's, it's shown to be the active ingredient in wine that keeps you alive longer. So if you're making a ferment from that, you're getting those same benefits of like red wine from a plant that's not grapes. It's, it's this weed that you're just, you know, Japanese not weed. Yeah. And, and we see weeds as a nuisance, but weeds are there because they're
53:15 attempting to rebuild soil right so and i would say um one of one of my favorite general purpose you can intentionally cultivate this really easily because it's compatible is the comfrey plant and you can grow that kind of around your garden bed as a border it's really easy to mow up against next too um it's also a great companion plant um you know assuming um when you dig it out if you don't want it there anymore that you you completely dig it out because it'll grow back from a small amount if you just leave a tiny bit of roots it'll continue to grow back which is another endearing
53:54 quality if you're trying to ferment it because it's almost ever growing it's almost impossible to kill but if you grow a bunch of comfrey around that's a really good dynamic accumulator And so as a general, just like, I don't know, and I want to maybe cultivate something intentionally, comfrey is a great choice. It grows great in Europe. I think the variety I have is called Russian comfrey. So it leads me to believe that it already comes from, you know, that would grow in Europe, that region coming across if it's Russian. Yeah.
54:30 Oh, and if you want your plants to be more hardy, pretty much just picking whatever plant is naturally thriving in your area should also make your plants hardy. Okay, so Stone Mason here is asking a question. And any ideas on how to make my LAB into a pellet that will sink in my pond water to help clean it? So, you know, I've heard of this as Bokashi balls. If you look up Bokashi balls, essentially, you know, this is like one method I've seen of this is where people take a tarp and they put down a bunch of seeds.
55:21 then they take a bunch of clay like stuff and put it down and then moisten that up by spraying the lab on it as as a you know dilute it one to a thousand and put it into a sprayer and spray that water to moisten the clay and then you roll that tarp back and forth and what you end up is with these seed balls and people call those bokashi balls because the the bokashi would be like the the the lacto or the the em that you're putting in there and so maybe maybe if they're doing it uh bokashi they put a dust in there and mix it all together and stir it but they form these balls
55:55 these clay balls and then those they they throw around as as just seed bombs basically but i think this same thing minus the seeds um would would work uh would go and sink right down into the um into the bottom of the pond and then embed in the muck and then release that and so maybe even um putting you know making like a maintenance solution with that lactobacillus while you spray that clay and then rolling it back and forth on a tarp until those balls form yeah that sounds cool right that is interesting yeah then you'd get that that um you know
56:35 right right down to the bottom the other the other thing i would say too is that if you have a pond and you're you're just spraying it in you don't you don't necessarily need it to sink to the bottom Yeah, I was going to say, I would think you would just be able to pour it in. Yeah, just putting it straight into the water and dilute it in. But those types of solutions, looking those up. Let's see here. Yeah, talking about, so they're talking about one plant per fermented plant juice.
57:15 And again, the reason for that is that when you're taking multiple plants, the whole second step is for the fermentation step to happen. And on the leaf surface, like plant material has microbes on it. This plant has microbes on it. And when I mix two different plants together, I'm getting both those different microbes now trying to break down both those products. And if I just isolate it to say I'm just going to use this, only the microbes from this plant material are entering. then when they get activated they know how to break down that plant material they don't get
57:48 confused and say okay well i'm supposed to break down this one and this one so doing them by themselves that's that's the reason for it in practice um i've seen some people just you know when we're doing class and stuff and i'm like yeah okay get a single plant and a couple people have come back with just multiple plants like listening is an interesting um skill to have and um and they ferment the things and they come out and sure sure enough as soon as you add enough sugar to that plant material you get juice but what is the quality of that
58:29 fermentation and you know in in this is where you got to get into you know sending this to like a a nutrient analysis place where you got to look into it. But I'm almost certain that, you know, it'd be foolish to doubt Master Cho and to say, you're full of crap, man. And I think he's onto something. And so to take the time to do the lab analysis, to do these things, that would be fun. And you guys can use more than one FPJ in your solutions. so don't think like you know oh i want to mix them to increase the quality you can just make
59:09 two separate you know fpjs and mix them later when you're making your solution right in the in the formulation combining step when we're diluting those you're adding adding multiple yeah and so again if you're going to add um three like add three different fpjs into there the the standard dilutions one to five hundred don't change that dilution with three if you're going to have more than three then start to do some math to um dilute further so it'd be like one to a thousand if you're gonna add four you know like just start start to start to lower it because at a certain
59:44 point you're going to hit this upper threshold where you've added too much sugar to the system and that will then cause problems bacterial overgrowth pests um you know problems and Your aunt's going to come over. Wow. Great. Yeah. So, yeah, let's see here. Going through. LAB can be useful using it plain when spraying on hay floor for goats. Yes. So if you are using the LAB as something to spray on your bedding for animals, I think you're going to see huge benefit.
1:00:31 The odor elimination, quicker breakdown of the manures. Oftentimes what happens is the manures don't get gross. Like, so if, if, if say there's a piece of, of, of, of manure and it's fresh, I throw, spray it with some LAB or throw some IMO three or four on it. It then turn, um, mummifies it almost. So then instead of being a gross wet manure pile, it actually then, um, dries out and then becomes something where you can like pick it up and crumble it. And because the biology has been introduced to this other indigenous biology or this lactobacillus biology, there's no pathogens in there anymore.
1:01:23 There's no biohazard. She's saying she applied six applications a week apart. Kind of smells less, but not quite sure. And I just talked to Drake about this, but I thought about going to my local dairy farm and they stink. and using IMOTs along with LAB in order to mitigate smell. So you could try that. Yep, yep. So combining, the more microbes you're going to get in this situation, the whole deal with these microbes we're working with is to bring it back to some sort of balance. and balance in nature is is compatible for mammals and and um humans and things it's not
1:02:11 it's not this um like if something's stinky it's out of balance and so when you're you know because otherwise the whole world would stink right because it really um so okay so stonemason here is just answering um to say yarrow stinging nettles comfrey these things that are found in the u.s would also be good in europe similar things we mentioned i think those are those are the ones um and then he's saying something with deep tap roots because they're probably going to pull up more nutrients and um don't forget the fast growers with for
1:02:52 those growth hormones so thanks for that the goofman and um dandelions and so dandelions are abundant yeah so going out and um wild yarrow getting getting those dandelions in early spring that's a really good time to do it um so cool and thank thank you guys for donations i'm just scrolling through and seeing these and it's really appreciated I think Suze appreciates it the most well he's reassured yeah okay so let's see FPJ is many things think of it like the
1:03:38 NPK of each plant is different in the in deep taproot plants will have more minerals and the young fast growing plants will have more growth hormones yeah so thinking thinking of it as um thinking of fermented plant juice as an npk type of thing is like a good general like if you want to just tell someone that's really used to to amending that way you can tell them that but then also if you start to analyze it you're going to get all your trace trace nutrients as well you're going to get in find it has enough boron
1:04:11 enough all these things and all the hormones which are are really um where it comes into play with like fast growing plants we'd actually yeah you mentioned it there you go and then he um there's a question here um okay wait hang on let's see so he's asking can i use an arugula fermented plant juice to target it for that specific plant um i would say an arugula is going to be great for any type of leafy greens you're growing. That darkness of the arugula, that it grows so fast. It's so vigorous. It's such a potent thing. It does have that little
1:04:52 bit of spiciness to it, but I don't think that's going to be a problem. You know, like those mustard type of things, I think, I don't think it's going to cause any bummers, but I would use arugula and And then that would be, you know, if I'm growing a whole bunch of lettuce, leafy greens types of things, an arugula FPJ is something I would use all the time. That would be actually one of my main, that and maybe two other fermented plant juices that I would figure out to use.
1:05:21 You know, if I was leafy greens, arugula, comfrey, and I don't know, maybe I would do some sort of fruit as well, just depending on when my life cycle and my life stages are. but something like that's going to be really potent. So Rainbow Possum is saying, our chicken coop has a raised wood floor, so we can't do KNF deep litter. Okay. We sprayed LAB when we clean. Is there anything else we should be doing? Okay. So in raising chickens, you don't need a super deep bed to be there for the chickens.
1:06:12 You only need about four to six inches of grass clippings. So when I mow the lawn and I have a bagger and or just rake it up and make a pile, wait for those to dry out a little bit and then put those in and spread that. So even on a raised wood floor, you should be able to get four to six inches of, um, of the grass clippings. You don't need to dig down like the pigs. You don't need to do any of that. Um, and the whole key for the chickens is to have the grass clippings where they're short. If you use like straw, that's longer than four to six inches and you put straw in there,
1:06:54 they'll, they'll mat it down and turn it into like a poop mat. it won't turn, but grass clippings, the chickens will spin it and turn it and keep it growing. So I think you might be able to get a system like that. But if you don't have a system like that, like I, there's people here that raise pigs and they'll raise them on cement floor. And so what I tell them in, and they're washing the manure out with a hose each time. And so what I tell them is as soon as you're done washing it out with the, with your hose,
1:07:25 cleaning your floor, scatter some IMO3 or IMO4, scatter it in there just so it starts to put these beneficial micros back. That leftover moisture from rinsing it down or cleaning it out will be there. It'll start to grow those things. And then if you do have problems, then take a and spray some LAB on top of that to activate it and really bring in like, you know, the protectors, the KNF police, like the things to arrest any of the problem-causing microbes. I would also think putting IMO in their food and LEB in their water and try to kickstart the breakdown before it even exits them.
1:08:07 That might help too. And that's next level, right? That's like getting it into their guts so they are doing this fermentation, which would then increase the digestibility of everything. If the poop's coming out stinky, it means there's still nutrients in there that need to be eaten by something else. So other bacterias are moving in to do that job. But if your chickens are absorbing more of it, there's less thing to come out. And if you pre-ferment the food like Drake does, Drake ferments his chicken's food before he feeds it to him for 24 hours. So, yeah.
1:08:54 So, getting through here. Oh, sorry. So, we have a problem with creeping couch grass. Can I FPJ its roots too? I would think as long as you can get moisture out of it, you can you can yeah you can make fpj out of it so go for it back to us yeah that's how it is yeah you can make the roots um if you if you dig up the roots and you shake them off get get like 99 point percent of the dirt off of it then make a ferment out of it the one thing I know is that sometimes roots tend to cling on to the nutrients more. And so just
1:09:49 doing a fermented plant juice, you don't necessarily get the same components out as if you did, um, like plant tips or the fruits or the above ground parts, you would get more of the like water soluble type of stuff. So if making a fermented plant juice out of it, you'll get more. Sometimes if you make the roots, you need to continue that process and actually make a can of medicine out of it to get these harder to pull out things out of the roots. So fermenting, making a fermented plant juice, the can of food first, and then adding alcohol of just similar to the can of medicine
1:10:27 recipe. And now you can get an extract. So depends what you're trying to get out of the root and for what reason and what, you know, that's more expense to it. But some plants have amazing nutritional benefits, medicinal benefits in their roots. I mean, in OHN, we use licorice root, angelica root. So, yeah. Oh, and Jairus' name is George. What's up, George? So, yeah, all those things would be good, you know. And again, if you, you know, making fermented plant juice out of it you have the additional cost of the sugar but you can also
1:11:09 just take all those things dig them up put them in a bucket add water add a little soil to it and make a cheap food it's going to stink like heck and don't get it on your skin don't get it on your body just drench it into the soil but you can also make these other ferments using the disgustingly cheap recipes. Yeah. And speaking of that, yeah, Gerard, what's up Gerard? How's Alaska, man? Yeah. And he's saying he's, he's saying JLF it. If you want to break down a ton of different plants, that's exactly what we just suggested. See, that's why if you come, Gerard
1:11:46 came here, he learned now he knows now he's out there. Now he's suggesting the right answer through the chat. This is growing the KNF network. This is awesome. And I really appreciate all you guys tuning in to share these answers. You guys are getting to the answers before I even scroll to the chat and then I answer it and then I scroll down and I find the answer is already there. And it's like, this is good. There's a Django saying, Mike, is that going really bad? okay okay so hang on hang on so okay so so we're we're almost we'll almost get through these things we got a couple more minutes
1:12:30 here we'll we'll spend it here but um so someone's asking do you really have to keep saying korean natural farming pretty sure it's just farming um the reason the reason i stick to korean natural farming is it gives us um nine core solutions and it gives us a tool set and it gives us something to aim for if i just say farming um like sure sure it's just farming but but there's like a specific set of tools that we're using to do this and so i think by giving it a definition by calling it korean natural farming it brings in this idea that you're gonna approach it with a certain methodology
1:13:06 and i think i don't i didn't i don't want to introduce these things as something to like limit you to say oh well that's not that's not part of the knf so i can't do that but instead to say hey like this this is this understanding this is this greatness and into to empower us by by giving us like limits and definitions this we're really like saying okay yes like i know how these tools interact i know how these things go and you can start to build a framework on that yeah i mean knf is it's it's pretty much just a label that allows us to present the package
1:13:43 of the nine core solution solutions so you know i mean you can call it natural farming if you want you know but yeah and i think also calling it korean natural farming gives you this idea of this lineage coming back to master cho who's who's not necessarily the you know beginning of this but But he's someone who's coalesced this into a package that we now see and have brought out to people. So I think it gives homage to where it's come from to a certain degree too. And I do more than just Korean natural farming. It's like permaculture, all kinds of things. So do we have to have a label for it?
1:14:22 No. But it helps me to understand. Okay, so we'll get to a few more of these. I'm no longer flushing my toilet Just pouring IMO4 into it Oh my gosh You are a wild man Only on the internet I swear Let me know how that goes That's a really interesting idea I mean it seems like he's been doing it for a while He's like I'm no longer I've moved on from flushing 100% water conservation mindset you must not have other people living with you I don't know maybe it doesn't stink
1:15:09 yeah usually the rule is if it's brown flush it down but you know but hey that's wild it works for you I would ask for a picture but I don't think that's the right solution yeah no GMI man thanks so hello from kansas what's up kansas is it safe to use the jms prep on soil while waiting for knf solutions to finish yeah yeah it's fine absolutely it's actually it's good because you mean you can get jms in two days yeah few and large quantity in a matter of hours yeah yeah and there's start with jms do
1:16:01 it do it do it drench it drench it you're bringing life to the soil you're you're getting getting it ready then when you put the imos those guys come in as like this top shelf leadership that you spent so much time training that the rest of the microbes it's like it's like they're coming into an active living area and they're like hey guys let's do this and the synergy that you get from that is just amazing and you even if you know let's say you apply jms and they don't you know i guess continue on living they end up just becoming bodies which are like just package
1:16:33 deals for the the big imos you're gonna apply so you know when you apply your imos that you've been cultivating over weeks they'll go in and they just have package deals everywhere of everything they're made out of so yeah okay yeah and that's super yeah um so george got a question here that says my friend's doing microgreens on peat for sewing growth is two weeks before cut uh which solution to make for increasing the quality and how often to mist it lab lab is going to help your leaf surface get giant yeah the other the other thing since you're doing these microgreens and
1:17:17 you don't really care about their further life you can actually kind of add a more fuel to it and kind of over boost them and and you wouldn't do this if you're trying to grow a plant uh past you know into fruition because you don't want to um have it get like unhealthy so to say but if you're just cutting at microgreens the fuel is going to go and i would say you could miss this daily on your micro greens. Start with the seed soak and then mist it daily onto them. And if you are able to grow a tray or two and make FPJ out of it and then you can throw that on there.
1:17:57 Just grow one tray just to cut, just to make a ferment and then spray that on your next batches and now you're getting exactly what you need at that exact stage of growth for your new plants. And now you're going to get this nutrient density happening. And then ferment those plants that you sprayed this on and do it again. And now all of a sudden your iron levels and your zinc levels are going up. This is the whole thing. So, oh, the mic is echoing really bad. That's not good. Why don't you, so, thanks for letting me know now. But in the beginning I can fix these things.
1:18:35 In fact, I should sound check it with headphones and things before. but oh okay well anyway um yeah okay so i just yeah thanks thanks jake for kicking down some super chats here really appreciate it thank you for yeah and appreciate you guys for the knowledge um we're about here at the end so um i'll just take these last questions and um save them up for next time and get through um and i just want to ask thomas here before we wrap up do you do you have any message for the world inoculate it yeah inoculate the world um
1:19:23 i say you should apply drake's rule zero which is don't don't let anything stop you Even if you don't have land or crops or anything, just start making the solutions. And once you've had some success, just start showing people. I mean, that's what I did. I didn't have crops, didn't have anything going on. I just started making solutions. And once I had a fair amount that was successful, I just started telling as many people as I found were interested. and just spread it out. You know, it's a beautiful thing
1:20:10 what our little microbial friends can do. Inoculate the world. Cool. Well, I want to thank you guys for tuning in. I'll be back next week. looks like it'll be the 27th and 9am Hawaiian Standard Time and if you want to check out pureknf.org donate to the foundation or just make a difference in your place I really thank everyone who donated today really helps with everything so I want to just thank everyone and And yeah, long live the natural farmer.
1:21:01 And with that, see you next time.